criticism in relation to composition

It's a poll. Don't forget to vote.

Let me be more specific. I do not mean "how much do you listen to other people's criticism" I mean this: how much does developing critical skills towards other people's poems allow you to develop better poems for yourself...

more important
than
praise

amen. But that is not the point. The query: does 'fine tuning critical skills' help in composition--for you

huh?

am I speaking braille? if so. disregard this.

LOL...  making me laugh.

Been cooking dinner!
LOL I got it.  I'm owning my womaness!

I am so inept at giving criticism. It is one of the tihings I need to work on most.  Yes, being able to analyze a poem is an important skill.  If I can begin to see inside other people's poetry, I'll be able to improve my own.

well I felt the bumps and got it now dumbo.

Here's the deal for me, without criticism, I can't grow! I like it when my work is liked and told so, that's great, to me that's just as important as well. But if I don't get any feedback, then I have no idea where I am going usually and I don't think that I am so insecure that I can't stand on my own and say I like something. Sure, I could do that, but the matter of the fact is, I am not writing for me, I am writing for a reader. And without knowing if I have reached that reader, I am lost.

On the other hand, the only negative feedback, is either no criticism or personal attacks. You don't have to like the poet to respect the poetry.

I would not say criticism is “super important,” but just as important as it must be to the creative process. Criticism is both a necessary feed-back for an author and a reference point for the readers. Without critique the literary life should be dead. I certainly pay attention to the taste of my time, so to say, but I try to follow my own perspective in the same time. It’s kind of compromise. It’s an exciting adventure.
Vasile

I notice that some people on this site do not post criticism of other people's work. Does that make them less able to critically analyze their own poetry?

As far as I have seen, Joseph, people hardly accept criticism on their own work from others. Sometimes they even take it personally. So, it is sometimes a matter of courage from the person who makes an honest critique to continue to do that. Therefore, to properly answer the question, I am not sure if that makes them less able to critically analyze their own work, as there is here involved also something related to the usual relationships among people, not especially related to the literary life’s connections, to the literary principle, better said.
Vasile

Once I presented a little rhymy poem to a workshop.  After a few critiques and suggestions (culminating with a venomous "It rhymes,") I realized I liked my poem just fine as it was, and said so.  I was then informed (rather huffily) that I was not to bring finished poems into workshop, to which I replied, "I didn't know it was finished until now."

I am open to critiques and often have benefited from an objective eye, but I realize that sometimes a person's personal bias will color their critiquing, as in the poet above who disdained all things rhyming.

Also, after the above incident, I discovered that givers of critiques will sometimes feel put off when their suggestions are rejected, and they'll brand the poet with the option of accepting or rejecting proffered critiques as myopic and stiffnecked. 

So after answering the query that you did not mean, what can I offer in regards to the true question posed?  Does forming an opinion of someone else's work help me in the forming of my own pieces?  Even though I haven't posted much in the way of critiquing others, I do form opinions, which is a form of critique, whether shared or not.  And while it is not an overt writing technique for me, it informs my writing, but perhaps kicking in more after the initial creation process as an editing and polishing vantage.

And still, after all that, outside critiques are welcomed and useful, even if the comments are, with all respect, rejected.

Joseph, you've posed a fine query.  It is apparently one that finds much discussion in the academic poetry world (that's what my reading leads me to conclude). 

I wholly agree with Lavonne's responses, and Griffin's anecdotal remarks highlight the personal, subjective nature of what I'll call "feedback" (which must, at times, be distinguished from 'critique' or 'objective criticism').

Poetry, as a human art form, arises from the use of language.  Language carries a necessary set of rules which are designed to promote communication and understanding.  Thus, poetry, of necessity, must operate within the realm of creating something 'shapely' along the lines of language and its various rules.  By shapely, I speak of the way poetry often does something with "language" that non-poetry doesn't do; thus, poetry will shape itself through the use of language.

For this reason, and others, I find "critique" to be highly valuable for the writer [although not necessary as much so for the reader]. 

The poet should be cognizant of how 'shapely' his/her poetry may be.  An understanding of 'the art of language', therefore, is very important.  Critique, for me, explores a work in terms of how it operates within 'the art of language' vis a vis various dynamics / elements known to be embraced within 'poetry'.

Generally 'unhelpful', though, are broad stroking comments (positive or negative) offering no substance about a poem's particulars.

On this point, I agree, also, with E.B. who states:  "the only negative feedback, is either no criticism or personal attacks. You don't have to like the poet to respect the poetry."  [quoting, E.B.]

As far as "personal attacks" go, a wise individual once observed that "you have to pick and choose your battles."  There are times when I find it necessary to address 'personal attacks' when I find the same in a proffered 'critique / criticism'.  At other times, I simply peruse the attack and move on.

In closing, when someone makes a 'critique', 'criticism', or 'comment' about a given poem, it is not necessarily a directive to make a change.  Such feedback allows the writer to reflect on specific aspects of the writing; modification decisions rest with the creator of any work, of course.

Take care.

Carol Elizabeth

Reading good criticism is like looking up the muse's skirt. Some of the best philosophy is the unpacking of the poetics in a poem. Remember, the text is not the author.

larry

the text is not the author - - but - - the 'means' of expression is . . .

not to crawl up your skirt, Larry,  but to me- the author, and, their means of expression is - integral - to the work.  you can't have any means of philosophy without "something" coming from within.

I think, if you look at criticism as only being criticism, then, you sell yourself short.  I think you should look at it as a means of  what's missing.  how and why did you miss your intention? did you leave anything out? are you, yourself, satisfied.. is there nothing- absolutley, without doubt, you'd change? or does it somhow lie outside- what you possess  by means of expression ? nothing - nothing, is ever finished - or- perfect, for that matter... nothing . . . absolutley nothing..

take for example - I painted a scene once, a river bend sort-of, with an inlet of water.  I did it in purple, fading to blues, off and on, off and on, off and on... very abstract, faded, almost beyond recognition.  it's a very odd work and from different angles, the paint adapts a ghost-like hue that's indiscernable - meaning - one can't always tell what the actual picture is  . . . I hung it none-the-less, just recently, in fact . . it catches the eye and makes one move closer in the effort to see.  I'd almost take it down, but the draw of it, the draw of it when someone moves closer makes me leave it there.  recognition, no matter the slight, keeps one intact. .and one should learn to appreciate 'that.'  I think, it makes you grow . . .

just my own personal opinion, and that, plus half a pence more, will net you - 'nothing'. . . lol
but I'm okay with that . .it's taken me well over two years to get there and I'll never go back to writing the way I once did, but still - I'm okay with that, and, I'll get there . . I'll get there. . . I can never be a true critic because I find so many faults within my own work, even when, I write my best. .