In the spring of 1966, I met my best friend Anne.  She was a rambunctious kind of girl who came from a nice white, upper-class, high-society family and had everything a girl could want.  As a matter of fact, she really wanted for nothing; spoiled rotten as could be. She was real girly on the outside; an outward appearance that didn’t match the tough kid on the inside.  Her hair was a flock of golden curls, her skin bursting with freckles, and her personality, well it had quite a bad kid attitude.  She was one of those bully kind; the ones your mamma told you to stay away from.  But, what kid listens to their mamma?  Anyway, we took to one another her and I.

Not long after, I found that Anne wasn’t so bad. She had a real soft spot for the niggers in town. That word still bothers me, but when you grow up in a small southern Georgia town, you don’t think much of it. My house was on the edge of town not far from the “separation.”  The whole feeling of things changed when you got near that place.

Ellie lived on the other side of the tracks, where all the niggers lived. We had a maid named Martha who worked for my grandparents.  My Grandaddy would drive cross those tracks some days when he would take Martha home.  We’d beg him to pick up Ellie on his way back to town cause we liked her. The people in Anne’s neighborhood weren’t so keen on niggers though. We couldn’t get a good playtime in before they’d make a raucous and back to the “other” side she’d go.  We never could understand what the problem was.  

One day not long after, Mamma got a call that there had been a situation with Ellie.  I could tell by her face that there was something wrong.  Then the tears started. Mamma started to talk, quietly at first, then through sobs.  She said that Ellie was gone.  I didn’t understand.  I thought maybe she’d run away.  She had talked about doing that a lot, but we never took no mind to it.  We all threatened lots of things when we were young.  We did it mostly for attention, or to get our way about something, but most of us never really meant those things that we said.  

Turns out, Ellie really was gone.  She was dead.  They found her body on the tracks. I found out later, that she’d had on that pretty blue dress with the white Peter Pan collar.  It had plaids of dark green through it and had a sweet little belt that matched.  Ellie had told us once that it was her favorite dress.  She had put it on that morning so she wouldn’t have to change for a party that afternoon.  But, she never made it to the party.  I just thought she changed her mind about coming. Anne’s older brother had been giving Ellie a time at school.  He hung around a bad group of boys. I didn’t like those boys at all.  They hated niggers.  That word still bothers me.  Anyway, when they found her, she had been beaten black and blue.  Her skull had been crushed in with a big rock, and her dress torn.  I knew it was those bad boys, but we didn’t discuss it.  Mamma just gave me a hug and said she was better off.  She told me to run on and forget about her; nothing I could do for her now.  But I never forgot her; I never forgot.

They had an investigation but nothing was found out.  They just said she had been in the wrong place at the wrong time, poor thing, and that she had met an untimely departure from this world.  It made me mad, cause I knew that those bad boys had done it, and got away with it.  They were protected, those white boys were.  And Anne never did say too much after.

It’s been 23 years since that day.  Funny how it came up again.  Anne and I were getting ready for a ladies’ social in town and her little girl came rushing in to give her mamma a hug.  She had on a sweet blue dress with big plaids of green running thru it.  My mind flashed back to that day.  I was paralyzed with the thought, but Anne didn’t notice my face.  I could hardly speak.  It all came back while listening to Anne laugh with delight at her little girl. It was that laugh.  On that day after school, those boys took hold of Ellie walking home.  We were trying to sneak her back to Anne’s, but those boys threw rocks at us and I ran on.  I ran and ran ‘til I could run no more. But I heard Anne laugh.  I looked back as they were dragging her into those woods.  I heard Ellie scream then it got real quiet.  All except for Anne’s laughing.  It didn’t stop.  And at that moment, I knew what had happened.  I knew that she’d gotten those boys to do that.  I knew she had gotten her brother to head it up.  I couldn’t believe what came back that day.  I couldn’t believe I had turned my mind from it, blocked it out all these years.  She’d hated niggers too.  That word still bothers me….

sigh. The story, needs some corrections, and cleaning up, but impressive and very very very very sad. However, I don't think you need to use that word. I just don't, I don't think it adds anything that would be taken away from the story, if you didn't use it. Honestly, it made really not consintrate on the story at all, except for fact that you used it. Sorry, don't think that I'm angry, I just don't think you should use it.

I second not using it. Made me want to not read it at all...lo siento senorita.

Hi EB,

  This story has sat for a long time now. Unfortunately, and I am not sure where you have grown up, but the use of this word is still rampant in many parts of the South.  I despise the word; it bothers me to the core to say it, to think it, to express it.  I have never understood it, could never wrap my brain around it.  But it is factual, and my point in using it was to make some uncomfortability in the story.  Thiis is pretty raw, and I agree needs some work, but I decided to jump off the diving board with this one and see where it went.

Thanks for your input.  Hope you understand where I am coming from too.

Laura

Hi Joseph,

  Again, the word evokes sadness and quite frankly anger in post segregation individuals.  Unfortunately it should piss off anyone who sees it.  But as I said, this kind of racism is still around, and it makes me mad.  I would like to get some feeling about what people think before removing the word.  To me, every time I read it, it bothers me.  Honestly, the use of this word is inexcusable, but the whole point of my story was to bring out emotion on this very issue along with the fact that this kind of thing actually did happen.  

I bide my time and stick to this one for now....

Laura

Laura, the true test to the validity of you using that word will be from the opinions of the black members here at poetry circle. I, for one, am whiter than paper.

Joseph,

  Yes perhaps you are right Joseph, but the fact remains there are individuals in this world, and in this country who think nothing of the use of the word.  It turns my stomach with each use, and I am always disgusted that it even still exists in this country, but it does.  My point was not to rowl up the restless native white folks, but to present a story, true to its time, where the lingo and language used was of common nature.  I see that it may put some in an uproar, but I am not the enemy here.  I agree that it is painful to hear.  But I think you have missed the point.

Laura

First I'd like to respond to your comment.  I disagree with the use of rampant.  Being in my 50's and born in Savannah, to a father from Ochlocknee, Georgia, raised in Atlanta, and married into a Sand Mountain, Alabama family, I can call myself an expert on Southern colloquial expressions. I am old enough to remember segregated water fountains, bathrooms, etc.  Today even in small towns, such as Horton, Alabama the word is rarely used in public. Yes, I'll admit I hear it OCCASSIONALLY in private homes from elderly folk.  I won't say NEVER but I'll stand by RARELY. 

The only time I hear the word in Atlanta is on rap radio/TV or from African-Americans on the street to each other.  Sure bigotry still exists but it's not the same as the era you describe. Rarely overt; it's hidden, covered up, layered in the culture.

I hope that you are using the word to create an atmosphere; to point out how separate you were from the culture of the era; how niave you were, but I agree with the others that it's not necessary. The word has its place in story and lore but perhaps you haven't approached it in a skillful enough manner.

Don't take this the wrong way but IMO it's almost as if you use the story as an excuse to use the word.  Why not re-read TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD by Harper Lee? It's also a coming of age story about a young girl dealing with bigotry.

Now that I got my opinion off my chest - look at it this way.  If you take the word completely out of the story nothing suffers. Not the plot, not the atmosphere, not the characters.  Also, it seems to be evoking an opposite response from the one you intended. 

Laura. This is a tough one. Because I am trying, my best, to look at it from your angle. And I don't want to come across as, for lack of a better word, pissed off or mean, because I'm not, I'm concerned, but seriously, its like I said before, this piece, with a little (LITTLE) bit of cleaning up could be great and I can see maybe (MAYBE) using it once, but it kills the story using it over and over. And for me, its really offensive, that you would say you hate the word so much, but yet, you still put it in the story for effect? Effect? If that's how you think that word should be used, then I don't what. That word should be history, it should be in the past, for us to learn from,  how harmful and painful society can be, and to prevent any repeats. It should not be used in a short tale about racism in the south on a poetry website. Do you understand where I am coming from? It doesn't matter where I grew up, I know, that even though brothers and sisters around me might still fling that word around, that, that is ignorance and that word should be used to learn from, not thrown around in stories or everyday language. That word is for history and to learn from.
I'm sorry Laura, I just think your better than that.

Yes Laura, we understand it is rather difficult for you to say...then i would say...don't say it! would it not be a bigger statement to yourself and to the word itself to not use it? to not continue to propagate such filth? yes indeed...the last author to use such a word and get away with it was Mark Twain...and that was over 100 years ago.

Hi Lavonne,

  I must say that what originally brought this story forth WAS the use of the word, in the South... I too hail from around Atlanta originally, but family is from small towns south of there, and I can promise you, it is still used.  Sad, but very true.  I have relatives who still in the deep South, converse with members of the community in such a way, as well as their own family, and not just by the elderly.  Yes, you are right that it was used to evoke a mood.  I grew up in that kind of mentality but do not share it.

  I will say, I appreciate your thoughts, I share your disdain, and what I didn't want to happen was for this story to turn into some debate on the politically correct use of a word.  It happened, it was/is unfortunately in pockets of this nation still and is used.  This story takes place at a certain time.  It was never my intention ever to offend anyone.  

  I am not sure what IMO is, but you are completely incorrect that I used the story to use the word.  That is the farthest thing from my mind.  I hope you have read how I feel about it.  I think I have made myself quite clear.

Thanks... Laura

IMO - In my opinion just shorthand.  Did not mean to offend or imply that you had an ulterior motive! Meant for it to come across differently - what I as a reader perceive not what you intended.  Apologies proffered.

You have to choose your words for their impact.  Did it work for you?

Joseph,

  I am not sure about this exactly so I won't be quoted, but didn't Margaret Mitchell use the word in her story Gone With the Wind?  I suppose when telling her story it might have had a bit of a different spin had she used a different one?  I would have to find my copy of the book, but I think she got away with it.  Now, please don't go on a tangent about how I am not Margaret Mitchell, but you did say the last to use it and get away with it was Mark Twain 100 years ago.  If memory serves me correct though, I believe it was eliminated on the set of the movie for the African American crew in the late 30's. 

OK, here's a thought.  The way you use the word seems unnatural.  You tell the story fromthe child's point of view.  In my experience, children are more influenced by their parents than by the people outside their family.  A child's behavior is molded by the punishment received.  Remember the line from the South Pacific song: You've got to be carefully taught. 

So it would make sense for you to have other characters speaking the word. But it doesn't work when the child, i.e. your memory, uses the word. It just doesn't fit. 

Like I said before, if you take the word out your story loses nothing.  I would just rethink how you use it.  A little goes a long way.  Once in the title grabs the attention and draws your readers in but overusing it in the story turns readers away.

I think you've got a beginnings of a good story.

Ok Lavonne, I will give it some thought....  I don't want to lose the story, I just need to think about how to do it.

Thanks, Laura

:)

If you read the story, the word is in there for a reason.  It is set up that that is the atmosphere of the times, that is the language of that day.  She isn't talking about how it was in your neck of the woods, it's how it was where she was.  Laura isn't using the word for shock value, she isn't using it to be currently derogatory, she's quoting the times she lived in.  I think the word is essential to the authenticity of the story.

I grew up in the west in the 60's and my grandfather used the word constantly.  It was a sign of those times.  My mother never used it, amazing considering her upbringing, and it's a word I don't use.  My grandmother didn't use it around me until after my grandfather died and senility set in in the rest home.  The staff members (black and white) gently got her to quit eventually, but early on when I would apologize for her, they told me it was just the way things were in my grandmother's day; they understood how her senility set her back.  It's not right, but that's how it was.

What I'm trying to say here is that your discomfort with the word is exactly the right response, but your objections to Laura's use is wrong.  I don't think the story works without it, I believe it hinges on it.

I agree s. bailey.  Although I've never been to the States and therefore have no authority on or direct experience with the issue; as an outsider this story brought alive to me a real sense of a time and place that should never be forgotten (however ugly and brutal, including the language).

You sure let the cat among the pigeons here, Laura. I'm on your side in supporting the legitimacy of your usage because of the time scale of your story. But then I don't live in the US.

What does strike me is how this particular word, with its innocent origins, from the latin for black, above all other derogatory terms, has achieved such an ascendancy in opprobrium. It is as if it has become the scapegoat for the 'white' conscience. As has been noted, it's OK for a black person to use it. A similar process seems to be taking place, certainly in the UK, with the slang term 'Paki' for Pakistani, and used by the ignorant and prejudiced to denote any Asian. And we can pat ourselves on the back, feel righteous, by deploring that usage, and, hey presto, the problem is resolved - our scapegoat.

I'm totally convinced that we must take care of the language we use, but in an historical, or semi-historical story, such as this, I think the very use of that word actually reinforces its message against abhorrent racism.

Another literary reference comes to mind with Conrad's story, The Nigger of the Narcissus. That title would hardly have got into print today.

I'll let it lie there. I think if we are to discuss the more general issues here, it should be done through the Discussions board.

milner

My disagreement was with the comment that the use of the word "is still rampant." 

I think there is a place for the word in the story - and especially in the title but it is used in such a way that the focus is taken away from the relationship the writer had with Anne.  Repeating "I hate that word"  focused the reader on the word.

I certainly reacted to it from an American point of view. 

I'm sorry Slick, what confuses me is that you have this story in the present. At the end you mention that 23 years have passed. So you are not using the word in the context of the past, but rather in the present. This is the difference between your usage and Twain's, cummings', etc. etc. They used the word nigger at a time when my grandparents or greatgrandparents would have accepted the label. In thier day it would have been a political statement to use a different word, today it is a racist statement to use the word. Maybe you got lost in the context of the story.

I do understand that the word nigger is still used in parts of the south, but typically by inbred hicks with tobacco juice stains on thier overalls. If your are writing the story from the perspective of an uneducated hillbilly you're on target. By the way, the use of the word nigger was a matter of political correctness in 1970, this is 2007.

Crap, I was going to make the point that eb and Lavonne made about an hour ago. The logic of the argument is: The story is being written in the eighties (its been 23 years since...), therefore the use of nigger is current. Even the argument that you are quoting the past, as was suggested is out the window after you use the word again. If you are writing as a racist (which isn't a racist thing to do) then its an essential part of the story, although I would wonder why you state that the word 'still bothers' the author. Are you writing this from the perspective of a conflicted racist?

Everyone who brought up past usage is right, in theory. They edited the 'n-word' out of Huck Finn because it is innapropriate to use now. This was stupid, Huck and Jim should have used thier gps locater to see if they were out of Missouri in that case. You are writing in the present (or at least the 80s), so the use of the n-word is racist. I am curious as to why you bring up the fact that it is still being used today? Are you saying that it is acceptable to use the word today? Maybe in the context of "Which nigger stole the confederate flag off my truck?" I'm not saying you're racist, its just the context of the story.

i'm on Laura's side.  it's a hard word and a harder story.  actually, i don't feel i have much of a right to weigh in on this discussion, being a 55 year old white guy from Reading, Pennsylvania.  but, i DO get the feeling that Laura is using the word legitimately, from experience, in an almost reportorial fashion.  i agree with Lavonne in that it's been done before and better in To Kill A Mockingbird...but what's to stop a writer from trying?  failure is an honourable position.  not trying is what sucks.
     i applaud Laura for this ragged, emotional story.  the fact that it didn't work out is no big deal with me.  Laura?  prose is tough.  short stories are even tougher, because there's literally zero market for them.  the days of Capote and Hemingway and Fitzgerald and the Saturday Evening Post are over.  if you really want to do something with this tale...turn it into a novel.
     nice try.  and don't let this tempest in a teapot get under your skin.
     best...
          always...
                    john
     

I wonder if it would be possible to use the word nigger in speech only. Drop it from the title as it offends so much and drop your closing line 'that word still bothers me'

excellent suggestions, andrew!
perfect!

Hi,

  I am hearing you all.  I will gather my thoughts and post again soon....

  Thanks... Laura~

Laura:

Being a lover of poetry, it is at least fairly rare that I'd comment on a prose work (although I do read them on occasion).  The title of this piece, "Them Nigger Days," most assuredly drew my attention; after all, being one born "Black," that wild "n-word" never fails to raise flags of certain and special depth.

With that said, the speaker's childhood relationships with:  (a) Anne, (b) Ellie, and (c) the word, "nigger" are interesting; although there is nothing particularly novel (i.e., 'new') about:  (1) the backdrop, (2) the plot ['tho factual in nature], (3) the story itself, as it unfolds, or (4) the 'tragic end'.   

It seems, largely, the tale brushes a broader theme of 'friendships', enemies, and disillusionment along the way toward 'growing up'.  But ahh, ohh ahh, we see there is a racial dilemma in the proverbial mix --  the speaker's mid-twentieth century world is one in which some folk 'seem' to have "a real soft spot for the niggers in town" and others "hated niggers."  How unfortunate it is that the truth of such dichotomy continues to flourish, even today, even at this very moment. 

Let me not digress too long, however.  What use of the word “nigger” (once in the title and five times within the body) does for this prose work is draw much more attention to the piece than it might otherwise command.   Some readers are immediately ‘put off’ by it – which is a form of negative attention, if you will.  Other readers, in the name of ‘authenticity’ and/or ‘free speech’ may find the flow of “nigger” in this work to be ‘courageous’.  Yet more readers may think the writer harbors an affirmative desire to use the word – perhaps being unable to do so in day-to-day communications, so folding it neatly (and repeatedly) into prose renders the use ‘more acceptable’.

Sometimes, it may matter whether the ethnicity of the “n-word’s” user is “white” or “black.”  There is a cadre of individuals who find themselves okay with ‘black use of the n-word’ (claiming that we who are Black can take ownership of the term and wield as it as we may well please), but who hold in penultimate disdain ‘white use of the n-word’ (claiming that those who were/are racist, oppressionist, and otherwise were/are at odds with the full personhood of ‘we who are not white’ are de facto precluded from n-word use).

My position on it is this, when a writer chooses to use any word, whether it’s something as neutral as “if,” “and,” “but,” ‘or’ whether it is connotation / denotation loaded like “nigger,” s/he must wholly understand knowledge of the word’s dynamic(s) and command an ability to aptly convey such understanding to the reading populous.  There are many ‘n-word’ users out there (of all ‘colors’) who are, sadly, totally (or almost so) clueless.

Laura’s story about Anne, Ellie, the maid, the families / communities ‘divided by some track(s)’, could benefit significantly from some development of precisely “why” the speaker finds (or found) herself “bothered by that word” [‘nigger’].  Perhaps then, some lingering questions about the frequency of use within the work, and its prominent placement in the title, could be both intellectually and emotionally resolved.  Further, development of such reasoning (as to the ‘why’ behind the speaker’s feelings about the n-word and its use) would likely add some depth to both the story and to “Anne,” whose sentiments seem strangely hollow – which most certainly is at sharp odds with the scene and situation as such are presented.

Thus concludes my half-penny (copper-faced & brown as it is) on this topic (in black & white) for the moment.

Carol Elizabeth Owens

As a short postscript on the larger social issue, freely note the following (today at CNN.com):

GREENWOOD, Louisiana (AP) -- Two shotgun blasts were fired into the home of the town's mayor, who says he had been cursed at before but never physically threatened.

Police stepped up security after the shots were fired early Monday at the home of Ernest Lampkins, who was elected in 2004 as the first black mayor of the small, predominantly white northwest Louisiana town.

I agree with the others, Laura, and I don't think you intended to hurt anyone----we have seen your heart in your work, and it is a compassionate heart----perhaps it is needful to have more understanding on the negative power of words like that...

In this story, you are writing from compassion, and from your hatred of violence----but that word, all by itself, engenders hatred in the heart of the reader----it is a hate word with the spiritual power of hate inside it----when it is read, no matter how honorable the writer's intention is, emotions of hate are inevitably felt in the heart of the reader----the reader can push them away, but they are still initially felt, because of the word's essential negative spiritual power----and when the word is used over and over, the hate flowers over and over in the heart of the reader, and the reader must deny it over and over...

As for myself, by the time I got to the end of your well written and grief-evoking horror story, I was so angry at the use of that word that the moral of the story was less effective than it would have been had you used a more acceptable word...

your friend,
Michael

Hi...

  I am not sure why I didn't expect so many comments on this story.  Honestly I have felt left a bit amiss as to how to tackle some of them.  First, I must say, it was never ever my intention to put forth any sort of racist thoughts to anyone.  I am as far from a racist as you can get.  And while I don't feel it necessary to have to defend myself, I kind of feel like I have to.  This word evokes negative emotions on every level, and should.  It was my thought, and I know that it is only my thought, that using the word would fill this story with an aura of extreme uncomfortability.  But what I got was defensiveness coming out and anger.  By that time, the story gets lost, and the point then doesn't matter anymore.  The delivery becomes lost. The point becomes mute.  I think that has really bothered me.  I guess I thought I might be attacked on sentance structure or lingo, or tense.  But, I thought that I might be given equal opportunity as anyone else to try something different.  This was a total opposite extreme for me.  But I felt it so deeply to the core, that I wanted to let it out, to try it.  The point was to refer back to a period in time, after slavery, after segregaton, but before any permanent real change in human equality was completely applicable.We are all equal.   I see the point that sometimes less is more.  I have pondered over the day, how to rewrite those places into something that gives equal value to the distaste of this word without having to use it.  I have as yet to come up with an answer that will work for me.  But I am trying several options, and by the end of it, it may be lost.  If that happens, then so be it.  But I will have tried.  I know that people base perceptions of others on what is seen.  I know that my story raised all sorts of issues.  I grew up hearing tales of the slaves my great great grandparents owned, and how that when they were freed, they stayed with my family, because they had been treated so well.  Having grown up with relatives that lived in a small town just 35 miles south of Atlanta, I was exposed to all sorts of acceptance and racism.  It does still live on, in the same way that those that are HIV positive have to contend with things like people who won't even allow their children to get near one of these men or women, because they are afraid that they will somehow catch AIDS..... It is the same kind of ignorance that is still out there today.  There were so many posts that I can't break down now who said what but, I do think it was unfair to attack my character, based on something that I tried to write.  It's a story.  It's not the living, breathing, human that I am.  I own my frailties and shortcomings; I admit my mistakes, but I am nothing more than an imperfect human being who deeply cares about all people and who has strived in my life to make a difference, one person at a time, by loving.  I had no idea I would stir up such dissension.  I really want this story to work, but for today, and for maybe the next bit of time, I feel it my responsibility to the integrity of this piece to consider all the options  If I can't make it work, then I can't make it work.  This piece will never be all things to all people, I will never make every reader feel it the same way.  That's why writing is so personal to any given two people.  It will mean different things to different people. 

  With that said, I thank you for the comments, for each one holds value for me, even if I don't share the issues raised with the same intensity that each of you individually shared them.  This does not mean in any manner that any of your viewpoints are less important.  It just means, that I have to and want to make this work.  There was some great insight given here.  I choose to chew on it a bit.  And needless to say, the War of the North and South was fought once, and I don't necessarily want it fought again here. 

  And lastly, for those I have offended in my trying of this piece, I humbly offer my apologies. 

With kindness to all you uniquely and wonderfully made people......  Laura~

Heck, I thought it was a great debate! I don't think anyone was truly offended.  It's good to spill your guts every now and then!

Hey - you're number six in the top 10 topics list!

Laura:

Greetings.  Kindly allow me to reply to discrete aspects of your most recent response regarding comments you’ve observed thus far about your story, “Them Nigger Days.”

Laura's Comment

"...what I got was defensiveness coming out and anger. 
I guess I thought I might be attacked on sentance [sic] structure or lingo, or tense."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

While I cannot speak for other 'responders to this story', for myself I must directly inform you that I am far from offended by your story.  I believe I noted a specific thinness of character development around the speaker's "lack of love for the word [nigger]."  All the story does is:  (a) give slight backdrop, (b) offer minimal character sketch(es); (c) lay out in summary fashion a race & class based mini-drama; and (d) tell us (without development) that the speaker is "bothered" by the troublesome n-word.  Okay....  where or when in the story are readers given even a hint of sense about 'why' the speaker is so bothered by "nigger," as a term of reference?

Laura's Comment

"I grew up hearing tales of the slaves my great great grandparents owned, and how that when they were freed, they stayed with my family, because they had been treated so well."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

Surely your experience, vis a vis 'master-slave relationship tales told to you by your forebears', imbues you with an insight which should enable you to tell a story, albeit about "Them Nigger Days," that demonstrates / depicts a greater degree of 'character' [as to Anne, Ellie, and folk on both sides of the 'tracks'] than what is offered in the 'story' as it presently appears.

Laura's Comment

"I do think it was unfair to attack my character, based on something that I tried to write.  It's a story."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

Having read each notation, I don’t see any specific ‘character attacks’ against you.  What is being attacked, throughout the discussion about “Them Nigger Days,” is the vituperative titular term, ‘nigger’.  Clearly, your story warrants relative discourse, being, as it is, peppered (pardon the slight pun) with such an action-packed word.  As a writer of the same, you must be prepared when the winds of inquiry begin to blow in your direction.

Laura’s Comment

"I really want this story to work…"

Carol Elizabeth’s Note

To be clear, this story, again, is not a novel (in the ‘new’ sense) presentation of what I earlier called:  a tale of  “ 'friendships', enemies, and disillusionment along the way toward 'growing up'… with a race-based dilemma in the mix.”  The extent to which it ‘does’ or ‘does not’ work neither rises nor falls with incorporation of the word ‘nigger’.  Instead, this story’s success shall rise or fall with the presence or absence of adequate ‘character development’, particularly from the speaker’s point-of-view (as well as that of Anne and Ellie).

Your articulated concerns about “sentance [sic] structure or lingo, or tense” are merely tangential to the substantive central point – which, necessarily, is the story (as written) on the whole [e.g., the characters, their concerns, development of each identity, the relationships at the core of the plot, the movement of the story from opening to close, and thematic dynamics.]

In closing, I agree with Lavonne W.'s most recent post:  discussion of "Them Nigger Days" contains elements of a "great debate."

Sincerely,

Carol Elizabeth Owens

laura, words only remain words with their original meaning if we choose to propogate them. if nobody ever used the word "nigger", eventually nobody would know what the word was or meant...we should be on the fighting side of destroying the word...because the word only lives on in our usage...if you hate it so badly, then do not propagate it, even if in the story you are trying to denounce it.
best
joseph

Destroying a word??? That comes perilously close to banning free speech!

Not what I meant Lavonne. Words only sustain their power if we continue to propagate that meaning whether intentions are good or not. The word should be destroyed, so far as the meaning of hate that surrounds it. I had NO thoughts of banning free speech when making that point however, derive what you will.

The idea of destroying a word is abhorrent to me----and we have enormous wealth, as a people, in our constitutional right to free speech-----however, choosing not to use a word seems as much a part of freedom of speech as  choosing to use that word----the bottom line being our freedom to choose, is that not so?

Michael

Destroy we must.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101743.html?hpid=topnews

At the risk of opening up an old wound, I offer a paraphrased bit of Lenny Bruce (who was also persecuted for blasphemous word choice):

"There's a difference between a great big piece of art with a little shit in the middle and a great big piece of shit with a little art in the middle.  If you don't understand the art, it's just one great big piece of shit."

I think it was a powerful emotional piece, Laura.  You took more of a chance than 95% of the writers on this site.  Thanks, Moskowitz

good for you, Moskowitz----it's the heart's intention that speaks, and I have since learned there's no racism in Laura's heart...

michael

 Hy, I have read and enjoyed this piece very much a few times now, and digested the following debate. A most accomplished and couragous  post, Laura,

I have also read all replies with interest, but am too new to freely pass my opinion, lol. Suffice to say I am of mixed descent, but basically Scottish (with a tan) and did live in LA for a few years in the early eighties. As the Californian sunshine darkened my normally lightly tanned complextion...I was constantly reminded that time was only 25 years on from the problems of civil rights and the events of Martin Luther King.
 LA was the last place I expected to find any residue of discrimination and I am quite sure it is 'still' evident, but one really has to be the victim to speak wth any great authority as to how much or how frequently it would arise in the most unexpected of situations. (Renting a condominium in a 'good' neighborhood and condusive to my families residence in the UK, finding all tables were reserved in a coffee shop, ladies moving their handbags to the other side of their person for fear of being robbed, standing in a line in Buffams to pay for an xmas gift to find others were served before me until I spoke and was then smiled at with the exclamation of "Gee Honey, your British!") We stretched the allowed three weeks in the Huntingdon Sheriton at companies expense into ten weeks, eventually renting from a Japanese chap, but we/I had found ourselves in a situation so unlike the other 'totally' white Brit families who joined the same company from the same block visa and found accomodation within the allocated time frame. I was not treated as a 'nigger' so much, not being that dark a skin colour, but was frequently regarded as a 'wetback', another derogative social tagging which robs one of equal status. 

 With both my interest and qualifications in social psychology, I really did enjoy this three page debate about such a sensitive subject, Laura, but was disappointed that so much of it did not crit your actual overall written content, concentrating more on the valid use of a word which is so branded into American history. As long as it is heard, it may remind and may amend. (If one were to write a piece on German war tactics...would the word Nazi be excluded, I don't think so). Your piece was more about human relationships and their encountered problems than only about racism.
Much admiration for your loyalty to your inspiration, which imo, was authentically presented in 'all' respects, Zydha

I think it there is a nice little piece hiding under all this debate.

Perhaps your character's position needs some clarity. Strip it down to its core - less is more. There are too many huge ideas you are trying to squeeze in here - for example repetition of the word for authenticity (which is why I think you used it, not to shock) would perhaps be ok if used with a steady head. But by adding -'that word still really bothers me' you are constantly bringing the story back to your current state of moral anquish.

I applaud your attempt to takle such a big subject in a short story. I think you would achive a much higher degree of effect if the narrator in the story was more detached - just saying it how it was. That doesn't mean you have to be detached from the emotion, just filter it. For the purpose of the story try to momentarily elminate the part of you that is so bothered by the word - the racism displayed by the characters in the tale is stong enough and doesn't need modern-you poking your head round the door every few lines to reassure us how you feel about it!

As for the title - I just feel it's a little clumsy - much like the use of the word throughout - not offensive to me, just.. clumsy. Others may well be offended - some people will never accept use of the word in any context. Personally I think art is there to ask questions and if that means using a word then so be it. But are you really asking enough questions with its use here? If used wisely you will do so. But if your use of the word can't match up to the level of debate that will fall from using it - then it's use appears clumsy... I do think there is room for it somewhere in this piece, but the voice needs to be alot stronger before the word begins to add rather than detract.

The classic twist at the end is the crux of the piece - focus on that. Whilst not a new idea - if done to good effect you will have a solid piece of emotive prose in your hands.

Since this one continues to be rearing from time to time, I appreciate all the comments of the last couple months.  It spiraled to a place of which I have not gone back to.  I guess the underlying concensus of it, is that there are pieces and parts worth saving to this work.  I have not gone back, though someday I will and try to make sense of where I lost it's form and content, on the things that need to change and move beyond.  I will get to it at sometime, when I am ready again to tackle the images that caused me to write it in the first place. 

For now, I let it lie still if it will.  Laura

I'd say the images are all there Laura! just needs some stripping to its bare essentials which won't take long at all. If you try to go back and deal with the emotions you had directly you'll end up too attached to it again - For me this piece contains all the ingredients you need - work at it like a sculpture.

Hi Laura,

I just read the story and the threads. The tale has
a powerful plot.  Its worth modifying.
I agree that you should take the word out of the title
but I don't think you should not use it.  The story is set in
the past, even in the recent past shit like that happens.
You should however be careful to put the word clearly into a
characters mouth and in context.  Its shock value
only works once, so don't keep repeating it.


Good story

e

Revisited this today... it has been good to be away from it for awhile....nearly 3 years. I am going to work on stripping it, and developing more of the characters and story line. When it is re-worked, I will post again. And, the title will change... Laura

I have no idea how to remove the title from the page... I would like for it to read, Untitled for rework.... Lavonne, someone, can you help??!!

Wish I could.  You can change the posts that you made but we can't change the posts that others made. 

You have changed the title on the original post - so when people search that is what will pop up not the original title.