That the old moon
shines down
much the same
as it did
at the start of creation.
That the stars
still shine
in the black of night
for me.
That creations story
began with light,
hovering over the water,
and God saw it was good.

How precious light is, for growth, for warmth, for health of mind, body and soul.

What follows is probably not a response you expected, but I assume when we place our journal entries in a public place, we're looking for responses, period.

What's obvious to me from your entry is that people create their own meaning, regardless of the facts, and that these creations of meaning are the foundation on which they build ideologies and religions.

Your musing is a further illustration of the thought process that, I believe, starts out innocently enough but ends up separating humans into factions ("you believe this, while I believe that") and has a better chance of eliminating the species than anything else I can think of.

Hi Jay,
Do I detect that you either don't believe in God, or is it that you don't believe in religion or both. I think what you mean is, I take an idea and create my own visionary speculation, not allowing for anyone elses view. Well first of all I am not a fanatic, I wouldn't dream of presurising anyone into my way of thinking although I know there are people out there that would. I do however agree with you about seperating humans into factions, whether it be politics,or religion, but I also believe that the people in this world will do a far better job eliminating themselves with unhealthy lifestyles and the like, than any religious ideology could do. Christianity should be about loving one another, and to most Christians that is just what it is. Wars do not start with love, and to say wars happen in the name of religion is just a cop out for fanatics to do their own thing. Thanks for your comments Jay. Margaret.

I dunno, I think historically religion has allowed leaders to twist ethical doctrines to justify wars and other attrocities. Also, I feel like religion-- and, in particular, Judeo-Christian morality-- is often used as a way for people to feel superior to one another and to legitimise many of their life-denying instincts.

No matter, though. I think a world that was the result of a cosmic accident is somehow more beautiful than one with divine intelligence at the heart of it. Like if the wind swept piles of foliage into random swirls that looked like Van Gogh's Starry Night.

I suppose the idea of god's never really appealed to me. When I take a walk through the woods, I want proper alone time, not some creepy omnipresence hanging in the air. I've always been able to appreciate a bit of solitude.

Take care,

-O

Hi oleksa,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, appreciated. however God to me is in everything even the air we breath he is not some omnipotent being sitting on a throne somewhere, he is around and within us, heaven is where the heart is, and that starts with me and you.

I wouldn't respond with an opinion on this if your thoughts had been posted as a poem. That said, I observe that organized religon has always been about power over people(Christianlty being one of the most violent religons throughout it's history); about leaders providing the security of a so-called afterlife in return for abdication of individual responsibility. When we "put thing's in God's hands" aren't we washing our own hands of responsibility?  I admire Jesus and Budda, and Mohammed and others because of their humanity they exposed to us, not the divinity we have imposed on them.

I am proud to say I have read the bible (among other religous books) more than seven times and often draw inspiration from its pages but I have never seen it as a literal explanation of creation nor as the actual words of God.  When one explores geology, anthropology, physics, chemistry, and mathematics even as a casual seeker of knowledge, the words of the bible and the view of history it presents become more powerful but meaningful in a much different way.

Of course, I speak from my own experience and knowledge, as always.  But I am so much more aware of the world and the beauty in it since I stopped believing in the creation story that "began with light, hovering over the water..."

Hi Lavone,
thank you for your comments, however as far as I know the creation story does not go against science, in fact there are many scientists who do believe in God. You say you have read the bible seven times, and got much  from it, what do you think about John chapter 6,? were Jesus says unless you eat my body and drink my blood you will have no life within you, and turning to his followers, who had turned to walk away, he said does that disturb you. but he did not call them back on the contrary he meant what he said. He never said his church would be perfect, however budism is the only one who hasn't caused wars. I do feel though that most Christians today take personal responsibility for their actions, at least the ones I know do. no-one could say with all honesty that they are saved, non of us know that. Most Christians want only to love one another, isn't that what Jesus taught. Margaret.

Well, I was expressing my own opinion formed by my own experience (having been raised by a staunch Church of England mother here in the Baptist bible belt of the USA!) But like I said the bible is a compilation of stories written by many men and translated many times by many others in the context of their own times.  Believing in God does not mean believing in bible-style christianity.

I largely agree with this. I too have never understood the apparent need that people have to believe that there's a god and, worse yet, to insist that there is one.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

--John Lennon

Hi Lavonne,
I am a Roman Catholic, and I do know that the bible consists of different stories, history, poetry and the like, however I also believe that theologians know what there talking about. I wouldn't dream of telling a plumber how to plumb in a sink, or an electrician how to rewire an house, and a theologian is no different. We Catholics are not bible bashing Christians, we live simply and honestly for the Lord, going about our daily business, and helping people when we can, and we do not presume we have a place in heaven already waiting for us, and anyway where is heaven all around us of course, We do not presume any kind of  afterlife in particular, no eye as seen nor ear heard and all that,we just trust our Lord,and after all even you must believe in something. Margaret.

Letss agree to disagree - LOL - as a poet I presume to tell everyone how to do their jobs!

Hi Lavonne,
Sounds good to me. no offence meant in any way. Margaret.

Hey! none taken! I like the discourse.

Hi Jay,
I am not insisting anything, to you or anyone else and I would not presume to do so, however I think you may be the that is, and yes John Lennon had a right to his beliefs as well. Margaret.

Margaret,
You sounded so peaceful in your poem in your journal. Isn't it nice to be able to come here and write what we feel? Sorry your thoughts were disturbed by others coming in and trying so hard to destroy what and how you feel. Since this poem was written with thoughts of a future poem, not nesscesarily one to even be published, it seems so silly and childish that your private thoughts, feeling and beliefs are under fire..and that you are being pressured to believe the way others do. I was thinking of writing a journal here too but I think I rather do that on my comp or paper lol. I will probably get a response on this, but I'm thinking that some of us are bored and we need to start a board called Peyton Place and let her RIP! By the way, your thoughts made me feel peaceful when I read them! Keep at it.
Nicole

Thanks Nicole for your support, much appreciated . Margaret.

Hi Nicole, thanks for your support, This is obviously not a site for free expression, at least where religion is concerned, lesson learned. However maybe your right about boredom and  Peyton Place. Margaret.

What I read in each entry was individual thoughts on the original post.  I didn't read anything that was trying to destroy Margaret's beliefs or pressure her to change.  This was a posted Journal entry, open for comment and we commented.   

Olesa ......you'v been in the woods for a long time
are you coming back to PC ?

silent lotus


~~~