i read a comment late last week from one user that they had written a poem and edited it 5 times before posting in the workshop. that statement, coupled with the comments by Rick (posted above), makes me wonder how poems are created. and once they are created, what's your process for getting them into shape?  do you have a set time after writing to allow it to sit before editing; do you reset this time every time you make an edit?  do you have certain times of the day that you write?  are you prepared (have tools) to write whenever words start hitting you?  when do you decide/know when a poem is ready?  


i personally can't say i have a process.  most of my poems are written on my cell, and i will write anytime unless i'm driving (except that one time). i write most of the time around 11pm, after the day has been washed down with a drink and/or blown out with a cigar.  i don't have an amount of time i let a poem sit.  i don't set out to write a certain type of poem.  i just grab the words that come and write them down, and i discard the ones i don't need. if i like it, i submit it. if i have an issue with it, i'll put it in workshop (or leave it unsaved on my phone) until the words start coming again. once posted, i do most of my editing, replacing abstract words, or playing with line breaks etc., which takes place for the first 2 to  5 minutes after posting.  after that first 2-5 minutes, my 'process' is complete.  it's submitted, and i wait to see how the paint hits the walls.

i'm very eager see how you 'make it do what it do'.  

thanks,

tiko

Tiko, I too certainly find that posting a poem immediately stimulates me to read it with fresh "reader's" eyes, and there are usually edits to be made immediately. Then, whichever board the draft is on, each reader who replies also stimulates me to reread with what I imagine as their eyes. This to me is one of the great benefits of a site like this.

I post in Workshop once I feel there is or may well be a poem there, then I like to read and reconsider drafts every day, and reset the clock after each edit; I want a poem to read well to me at least for a day or two before Submitting it, if not much longer if I have readers or my own intuition gives me reason to be suspicious of the poem!

I write all the time, in my head, on paper, on computer, sometimes notching leaves if I'm just out walking, and often in dreams, asleep! Most of all of it is garbage but I do have a semi-permanent weir set up for the occasional fish, though that sometimes compromises my concentration on other things that are going on. I find it very refreshing when I realize I haven't been writing/fishing for a few hours, or a day here and there--a good nap, sort of. -Tom

i, too, have a lot of garbage going through my head most of the day, random unrelated garbage.  most of the stuff i write is garbage.  and, some things are good, and i'll jot down the phrase or words and move on (not that i ever use what's been jotted down; it's quite rare).  it is quite nerve racking as well.  i have days when the words keep coming and i've not written anything for days; at which time, i hear 'you need to write something/someone screaming in my brain "WRITE SOMETHING DAMMIT!'

I really wanted to respond to this
but I can't say I have a process at all.

I cherish the scrap of inspiration
like a midwife to a newborn
and imagine how to clothe it.

Love the question.  Also the open honesty in responses.  I love to walk so long as I don't have to think about how beneficial the walking is to my health or check my pulse for a heartrate I'm supposed to get going.  My process with writing is approached in the same way, maybe?  I love words and things and ideas; I love tinkering with them like a rubic's cube to  solve some sort of unasked question or puzzle -- so long as there's no timer about to go off and I can manipulate the sides of the writing to please the moment of making whatever seems to be asking for shape.

thanks guys for sharing. 
i really appreciate it.

tiko

Thanks, Tiko!  Good question. 

I think of it more as being in shape.  When lines appear spontaneously, I know that I'm ready to write when I can find the time.  First draft goes into one of the journals I carry around, or it goes into Dragon Hatchery in Journalese here on PC.  Subsequent drafts occur when, upon re-reading, changes suggest themselves.  I really value the subconscious, spontaneous component in writing, and I'm amazed how frequently my poems actually make sense.  When changes don't suggest themselves, I do NOT force them.  Learned that the hard way, killing many poems.

When I'm not getting ambushed by titles or lines, I know I'm out of shape, and I take a few minutes to write down my junk thoughts in one of my journals.  I dialogue with myself then to get the truth from the distortions, and usually at the end of 10 minutes to half an hour, I get a line or a title for a poem, and I know I'm back in shape.

The process can go on for years, as you can see from some of the original dates in Dragon Hatchery.  I don't think about time.  Hurrying is another way I've killed good poems.  What's the hurry?  I'll never be famous, and I'm going to  be doing thistill they pry the pencil from my cold, dead fingers . . . . Probably the lazy man's excuse, as my mother would say, but then her art form is the spotless kitchen, and you can't let those go till inspiration strikes -- though I do try.

Rick

Tiko,

I think it was my comment you saw about revision - five is a very low number of revisions.....usually it is much much higher lol

I love revising, I love playing with the words and line breaks....I often fiddle with a title or a word many many times until I feel like it is right.....

I've noticed lately though that I do more of the revisions in my head as I'm looking at the rough draft, so there are less versions of it actually written down.....I've also discovered that I love revising on the screen, either on my phone or at the computer - I can see it better but on occasion I still handwrite it out (do it the long way)

I got in a bad habit of not writing, so my output has been severly stunted though - I've been trying to get back to writing something each day, even if it doesn't amount to anything

My best ideas come from seeing something that strikes me usually nature or child related but

I love the words of the day, more often than not if I don't have anything to write about I troll through the dictonary for a word that strikes me and go from there.....

M

reading Rilke's famous letters to young poet, it strikes me that what we do here is quite in the tradition of poets being monster letter writers as part of their "process"

Good point about reading aloud, SL. I used to read every poem I'd written aloud, though now I can sort of do it in my head. If I'm at all uneasy, then I will revert to trying the sound aloud. I'm very middle of the road in wanting a poem to work for both eye and ear. I live with many delusions or illusions, one of which is that any really good poem is also a 'performance' poem.

milner

hi tiko

thanks for the question. i don,t follow any particular process like most i suppose but i do expect the final draft to change because i consider myself still in the developing where poetry is concerned.strangely enough i find it difficult to write in my mother tongue,which is afrikaans( a mixture of dutch and german) English has always been closest to my heart in terms of expressing myself. I still don,t know why.

thanks for an interesting subject matter.

much appreciated

james

The lines rise in the part of the brain that hears sounds, even though there is no actual sound. Then actually reading them aloud is a pleasure, hearing them take on their actual physicality. Then reading them aloud a few more times, differently, to try to get a grip on one or two of the different ways different readers might read them, searching for grammatical misreadings, blind alleys, just plain mistakes. At (very rare) performances, I find it vastly more fun to read one of the other poets' work, and hear them read mine.

Amen to that, Tom. I note too, that I rarely read any poem of my own in precisely the same way at different performances. That raises the appalling thought, that to get a definitive recording of any poem would require innumerable sessions, a special kind of torment for me and any audience, and no worthwhile outcome.

milner