Differing opinions are vital to the health of this site. I will say no more on this except to note that John's statement has brought to the forefront of my mind something I regard as essential for writers in any medium, and of which I must admit to have neglected of late. That is to ask myself the simple question, after writing any piece: 'Is this boring?' In that, he has done me a great service. Doubtless others don't need such a simplicistic reminder, but I do.

Cheers

milner

Since we are all putting our last words in on this I will do the same. This will be the last thing I saw about this as I feel I have spoken my thoughts on the matter.

I could not agree with you more Milner. We all need that reminder to look at ourselves and our writing and say, 'is that interesting relevant, and important?' If it is, job well done. If its not, start again. I agree with that completely. But I was always taught 'what' you say is just as important as 'how' you say it.

Interesting topic this. I've always been a big fan of Adorno's article 'Commitment' http://www.newleftreview.org/?view=15, so I'll see John's comment in the light of this. The stench of humanity has everything to be said for it. As long as we can deal with it while still remembering our ethics. And this can be a problem. So here's an article from one of the 3 major Danish papers, who have taken it upon themselves to blame one poet for the demise of Denmark's only poetry site, http://politiken.dk/kultur/tvogradio/article876969.ece in Danish but the google translation is readable. It is a very apt description of the state of the Danish poetry scene. Just to say I'm so very grateful to have found a place like this where ethics do seem to be high on the agenda, I'm sure you can even rock and rave here without losing sight of them.

Peaceful cheers

I'm grateful to have you here, Doris, and grateful you posted this message.  I haven't read the article yet but plan too.  Regarding what you've found here, I've seen just about everything here with the exception of verbal attacks and deliberately hurtful posts.  What's ethical or not, well ethics are ethics.  Personally I try to follow the simplicity of the golden rule and treat others as I wish to be treated, which is what most members do here too, so I think we're all ok for now.

I think John's move was something personal and important to him, and from milner's posts I understand there was more to the issue than meets the eye.  I wasn't aware of all situations when I posted and wish I had been, but don't we all.

Anyway, thanks.            cheryl


 

Rudeness, like dog droppings, is of no particular interest to me, something to be avoided. What interests me is the intersection between what happened here and Doris's post earlier about confusing reality and fantasy. Much of John Yamrus's poetry was intended, among other things, to narrow the gap between poetry and real life. Much of it also contained rudeness directed by his narrator at readers, writers, and other characters. In the context of poetry, provocation can be valuable; but it is an imagining person addressing an imagined person. At the start of this thread, I think, he may have mistaken those imaginary people virtually presented here with the real people virtually present here -- a thin, collapsing line here on the postmodern internet, but still and always an important one. Tom

Thanks, Cheryl. Lovely to have 'met' you too. I am working on a poem based on 'Commitment'.
I'm theoretically challenged, so must admit John's point read like a summary of Adorno's to me... And trust me, where I come from, comments like John's are not considered rude.
And what you, Tom, write above about John's work is precisely how I found my way here... My stuff is all about this confusion of spheres.
Smiles from me

In the time of elshtain rabid moths
nested in our mouths. Prophecies
teetered like candle sticks striving
for balance. It takes something of
a quake to move rock, and all that
lies dormant. We come here to be
moved, we are looking for ground
swell, the displacement of pebbles
on steep slopes.  Now and then a
voice shakes loose our own phlegm
revealing a never before heard bell.
Poets adopt sounds, Yamrus wants
to foster an autistic paraplegic child.

Nice poem. My main concern is the ADD of the world. Writing a novel in verse is my proposed cure for that. :-)

John, I'm not sure about your goals, but I can say that the goals of the site have not changed one small bit. We have the same process and largely the same people now that we had when the the site was created. Essentially the site will give back as much energy as we put in, but there are other issues at play as well. Significantly, I think that a large segment of the community of writers still views online enterprises with a degree of curiosity, and indeed I have found that many of the writers I grew up with, who are in my age bracket, are in fact functionally illiterate online. I actually still get poets that I used to publish back in the days of the paper zines sending me work by email and asking me to post it here because they don't know how. Maybe the site is too hard to use. I'm not sure. But my point is that if we want exciting new talent here, we are probably going to have to invite people ourselves. That and the talent that comes in by way of the registration process here will be what keeps this site worth visiting, I think.

John,

Poets need to be trained.  They come from the same stockpot as everyone else.  A man who has given his life to a certain way of writing -- who has suffered the shocks and neglect that come from such dedication -- has a lot to teach.  I hope you'll stay and continue to say what you think and feel.  If certain poems and poets seem hopeless, you can always avoid them.  There are some fine writers here -- not just Milner -- and many more potentially fine writers.  They need what you have to tell them, even if they reject ti for the moment.

Rick 

Re: Are you commenting?

http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,19523.0.html


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http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php/topic,17387.msg124399.html#msg124399

Posted by: Doris Chance Posted on: May 06, 2010, 02:48:13 PM
Insert Quote
Interesting topic this. I've always been a big fan of Adorno's article 'Commitment' http://www.newleftreview.org/?view=15, so I'll see John's comment in the light of this. The stench of humanity has everything to be said for it. As long as we can deal with it while still remembering our ethics. And this can be a problem. So here's an article from one of the 3 major Danish papers, who have taken it upon themselves to blame one poet for the demise of Denmark's only poetry site, http://politiken.dk/kultur/tvogradio/article876969.ece in Danish but the google translation is readable. It is a very apt description of the state of the Danish poetry scene. Just to say I'm so very grateful to have found a place like this where ethics do seem to be high on the agenda, I'm sure you can even rock and rave here without losing sight of them.

Peaceful cheers
~

`


http://www.museumoftolerance.com




`

John is a decent guy and a fine writer. I pray he returns soon. It’s only been in the last few days that the penny dropped, so I had not a clue he had gone, driven by despair by all account.

I refuse to speculate, or make excuses one way or the other. We do what we do.

All I know is this place will be poorer because of John’s unique blend of sturm und drang, which was, at times, like the yard-dog meets the enlightenment school where they live. And we all know, or most should by now here, it does no good taking things to heart because you usually get creamed, else feel a right prat.

So John, if you should read this, please take this open letter for what it is, a note between two old farts who both know better than to rush off and burn a bunch of bridges. I would ask you here and now in the cool light of day, to reconsider and return home. I miss the fun, not to mention a few spots of blood here and there.

Best wishes,

Dax

Tuesday, October 26, 2010.





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seconded