He found the brown shoes on the verge
beside the Rochdale Road up on the moor.

Who’d dump a pair of shoes there with no feet?
A sailor from Lithuania? Plumber outward bound
for Blackpool for an august week? A lover
looking for another half? A drunken shepherd
on a spree? A hard man on his way to death?

Shoes bear the scars of life, their soles
know all the ginnels, cobbles, grass, the mud,
rugs, lino, pavements, slime that clasps the rain;
so many paces in the hunt, the chase that pumps
the heart, slow step of sorrow, stamp of hate,
march of arrogance, stumble of blind faith.

A crow lumbered by, a curlew trilled. He took
the shoes home, chucked them in the bin.



(For a video of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du5qIHBSSRE (The video's owner prevents external embedding) )

superb, milner
especially S3

Stella

S3 a magnificence, Milner: the balanced turn from what's underfoot to the what the foot's doing, turning with great "slime that clasps the rain" with its counterpart later in "stumble of blind faith." A rich, rich meal.
All else smooth and good to the ear, with one tiny distraction in S2, the absence of "a" at "Plumber", where it has been provided in all the sister phrases. (Love the way the "hard man" line finishes this.) -Tom

Thanks SL, Stella, Tom. That 'a' is missing from 'plumber' largely for reasons of rhythm, but also because it came naturally that way.

Cheers

milner

I was moved to post this because I've just seen a wonderful short film of it made by director David Wharton. After getting his permission, I hope to be able to send a compressed version for posting on the site (if I can figure out how). It can be seen on the this link, but on my computer it takes about half an hour to download a film that lasts but a few minutes. If you've nothing to do, then you might just try it whilst writing another poem!
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=YkxJK3BQYWJqY3J2Wmc9PQ

milner

If you titled this "Rochdale Road Up On The Moor" you coud drop the the first sentence and open it with that wondeful line:
Who'd dump...

larry

Get your point, Larry. This raises an interesting quandary. As the poem has been published in a mag and a collection, and has also been recently used as a small film, should one start making changes? Is it worth it? Is the poem worthy it? For posterity, so that some student seeking a thesis might note the alteration and so could make a fine point of the depth of his/her knowkedge of an obscure 20/21st century poet, whose existence has been dug up by chance from some archives? Jesus wept, and a tear in my eye. Sorrow or laughter? Doon't mind me, thanks.

Cheers

milner

I'd leave it alone. There are too many other fish. It works as it is and does what it is supposed to do. We could rewrite our work forever, especially the work that funtions in the language and not in its signifiers. When the work takes on the life of the world, the aboutness of it takes over. That student blowing the dust off the volume containing Hell for Leather will just have to make it up since he's going to anyway. The writing of history is the real fiction.

Wow, it's really grim up north, in't it? I like this a lot. Great details, and a fantastic Lancastrian word in "ginnels". Where on earth did that come from, Milner? Your past or an ancestor's?

My only criticism is the off-hand, almost throwaway (see what I did there?) ending. I know that's probably the effect you're going for, but I think the poem deserves something better. My opinion only.

Cheers

David

Thanks, Larry. You're right, it's not worth the bother. Never mind history, I doubt anyone can really write an autobiography that approaches real veracity. I'm pretty sure I couldn't, which is one reason I've rejected the idea that many have proposed I should undertake. It's likely we can get nearer to the truth through our fictions, prose or poetry.

Cheers

milner

Thanks, David. Ginnels exist on this side of the Pennines too, certainly in the West Riding (that was). In the old North Riding, where I was spewed out, they'd be snickets, more likely.

I guess, as I've mentioned in previous comments, I'm stuck with this version now, for good or ill, throwaway ending included.

Cheers

milner

Milner, I found the little film riveting for all it's brevity. Who ever produced it had a touch of genius because everything about it enhanced your reading of the poem. It is perfect as is.

I agree with you, Lavonne, on the quality. It's not my voice though, but someone called Lee Brennan. In fact I'd no part in this, wasn't even aware of which poem had been chosen until I saw the result. It's part of a project, making films inspired by poems, organised by Ra Page, editor of Comma Press. The maker, David Wharton, says he'd like to do some more. I'd certainly trust him after seeing this. Glad you enjoyed it.

milner

You know I thought the voice sounded different but put it down to the recording. Loved it never the less.

film?  we have film of milner reading?  where?

Well, as I discovered - it's not Milner reading but look up earlier inthis thread - Milner posted a link. Very cool.

Excellent, Milner. Maybe a touch too much sibilance in:

the heart, slow step of sorrow, stamp of hate,
march of arrogance, stumble of blind faith.

Other than that, for me this is superb.

james

Get your point, James. But with another reading it I didn't really notice it, and it seemed to carry OK. Maybe a north-west accent helped. Thanks for the compliment.

Cheers

milner

Ah, saw the film. Always amazed to see how different words are on the page, then in a voice, then in a voice in a scored film, as here. Each holds its own. The poem video though seems like a very promising vehicle, in general.

I agree that I think there are huge possibilities in working film with poetry, Tom. I've seen some brave attempts, a few years back on TV. They mostly failed because there seemed to be conflict between the two mediums. It's similar in working with music - it can be great as long as they really work together, without a fight for dominance between the two. I also once worked with a painter - that was great.

I think this little film goes so well because there is no conflict between the two art forms whatever. Easier said than done.

Cheers

milner

Who’d dump a pair of shoes there with no feet?

hello mr milner,

i like this line, but i suggest that "with no feet". A pain of shoes that you dump, surely will have no feet. This i think, is redundant.

why not just, " who'd dump there these pair of shoes?"

well, at any rate, the poem is simply "marvelous" & "awesome".

Thanks, Emma, but that line about the shoes with no feet is typical of a sort of dry northern English sense of humour. Though you may not find the humour in it, I feel obliged to leave it as it is. More than delighted that you find the poem 'marvelous' and 'awesome'.

Cheers

milner

This is superb, Milner, both in content and tone. Very happy that this it's my turn to pick for the Front Page, for this belongs there. I love your ruminations on shoes as containers not just of our feet but of our lives and experience.

That caps a really good couple of days for me, Jay. Proud that you picked this. Thanks

milner

It's a great pick for Front Page!

Congrats, Milner!

Terrific, my friend.  Terrific!

lynn

Milner,

I really love this poem. Somehow it captures the entirety of life feet first!
Superb. I can smell the leather on the way to hell.

                         Ken

Thanks Lavonne, Tom, Lynn, and that's a real compliment Ken. By the by, Ken, I'm struck by your Milosz quote. Recently a Russian lady, on reading some of my poems, said "These are music". Not the usual comment by a fellow countryperson!

Cheers

milner

Milner,

I'm glad you noticed the Miloscz quote. It seems true to
me. I always thought that there was some ultimate truth
in the fact that Joyce was a singer with a beautiful voice
to say "yes, and again, yes."

                                       Ken

Nicely put.  :)

dear Milner

it was a unique pleasure this morning
to find your Hell on the front page
as i was enjoying here in The Netherlands
a dark rye bread along with
a well known "Milner Cheese".

http://www.milner.nl/default.asp


and wanted also to bring up again my earlier comment of
how i enjoyed the reference to Rochdale in your poem.

So here a quip from Wikipedia

The Rochdale Principles are a set of ideals for the operation of cooperatives. They were first set out by the Rochdale Society of Equitable Pioneers in Rochdale, England, in 1844, and have formed the basis for the principles on which co-operatives around the world operate to this day. The implications of the Rochdale Principles are a focus of study in co-operative economics. The original Rochdale Principles were officially adopted by the International Co-operative Alliance (ICA) in 1937 as the Rochdale Principles of Co-operation.


sunday morning smiles

silent lotus

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks again, Ken. I do take sound to be such an important element in distinguishing poetry from prose (not a very original thought).

Yes, Jay, I must concur (I would, wouldn't I?)

Thanks SL, even though born and living on the other side of the Pennines, I must bend the knee, with whatever grace I can muster, to Rochdale and its cooperative movement.

Cheers

milner

I missed commenting when this was on Front Page...
please accept belated congratulations

Stella

Now my belated response, Stella. Thank you from where this presently sits in retirement, in the archives; not to gather dust, I hope. An honourable depository, noble interment.

Cheers

milner

The video of this can now be seen via this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du5qIHBSSRE (The video's owner prevents external embedding)

milner

Generous as ever, SL. I think David Wharton did a great job with this. And I didn't even know he was doing it until I first saw it!!

Thanks

milner

This and its film have been accepted by Outlaw Poetry. http://outlawpoetry.com/2010/02/13/milner-place-hell-for-leather/

milner

Thanks, SL. Ever happy to have something there, and they make such an effort to present your poems well - usually with some illustration.

milner