I hope I can say what I want to say about this without wearing you guys out.

One of the things so vastly different about Poetry Circle is that the editors embrace almost all types of writing, forms, lack of form, punctuation, lack of, etc.  But there's one thing that kinda bothers me.  And please, please don't think I'm complaining, whining, or criticizing.  I'd just like to open a window regarding abstract poetry.

I'm sure most of you don't even realize it, but the abstract just doesn't go over well here.  And I know there are good reasons.  Abstractions can be so well ... distracting and boring.  But there are some awesome, classical poets who knew how to write in the abstract in beautiful ways.

I certainly don't know how to, but I learned very quickly here (which was a very good thing for me, by the way) that if I didn't learn how to write poetry that touches the ground there was no way I would get any help from most of you here.  And I'm glad it turned out that way because I was way way way too abstract for the common man, and still slip off that way sometimes.

Here's my point though.  If we embrace all types of poetry, can we not find someway to help writers with a penchant for the abstract?  Gabriella comes to mind (and I hope you see this Gabby).  And there are a few other writers who just end up leaving because what they write leans away from the norm here, and toward the abstract.  What would/would've happened if someone had taken the time to meet them on their terms and help out? 

I do understand that sometimes people leave because they don't want the advice we offer--and that's too bad.  But I'm just wondering if sometimes, as a whole, we can be too narrow-minded.

I also understand this is a forum for contemporary poets and right now the 'abstract' is not the rage, but neither are some of the other things we so openly embrace.

I remember when Stirling posted his first 'computer' poem.  I thought, o my, now I think this is pretty cool, but I wonder ....  and lo and behold we loved it and many of us tried it in our own way.

Now, what I would like to do is back up all this jabber with some meat and bones.  Keepin' it real ya know?  I'll check out some poets who are well known for writing in the abstract, just to see what I come up with.

Until then, I'd love to know what you think, if you have time to comment.

cheryl

Nought wrong with writing of abstracts, Cheryl, it's how it's to be done. As you say, abstracts in themselves become boring, so it's only, I suggest, by the use of the concrete can they be made original and interesting.

Cheers

,ilner

Yeah, and I guess that's what those of us who love abstract art need to learn to do.  It's much easier to just brush off criticism as 'not being understood', when what we/I /we whoevah cares/ needs to do, is just bite the bullet, quit being so prideful, and learn to write.

Thanks for your comment.
cheryl

Maybe I don't appreciate the genre, or really understand it, but I think of so many here as being abstract, that are received well. Thinking of our Front Page poems lately, John's "Athenian Grace" seems very abstract to me. My "Jesus Chair" poem before that, too. Or are poems like that not really? Tom

Well, Tom, I don't know.  That's my point, I guess.  I don't think I know enough about the style to answer your question, but I want to learn.  And I know that what I keep hearing over and over again is that writers want to be appreciated because they write the way they write, not because they know how to please an audience.

Sometimes I read poetry that sounds really lovely, the words are awesome, the meter, but I have no idea what the poet is talking about.

Now, am I wrong or is there something right about that kind of poetry or not?

I just finished posting a little ditty in submit about different poets and what they've given us.  William Blake was and still is known as a lunatic.  But I actually understand and like much of his writing.  He opposed Milton righteously and took sides with Satan, that sort of thing.  His wife is said to have told someone that she and her husband Blake rarely talked because, as she put it, "Mr. Blake and I seldom converse.  He is always in Paradise".

I suppose he was so unearthly minded he was no earthly good.

cheryl

YES!  Sl, the exact same thought and theory are in both.

Sometimes only the artist knows for sure.

You know, kinda like the hairdresser?

Thanks for mentioning this,
cheryl

Well ..... there are many versions of what is abstract.....and of course the hairdresser is usually a messenger of wisdom



this definition i abstracted from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figurative_art

Painting and sculpture can therefore be divided into the categories of figurative, representational and abstract,
although, strictly speaking, abstract art is derived (or abstracted) from a figurative or other natural source.

However, the term is sometimes used as a synonym for non-representational art and non-objective art,
 i.e. art which has no derivation from figures or objects.

I think if the poetry is awesome to read, it's still awesome whether readers can put their finger on the meaning or not.
I give props to authors who just write the way they write; but if it's a crumby read, what can I say? It's a crumby read.
It's like lovers: The best do exactly as they please, and we love it. The worst do exactly as they please, and we don't!

Well, ok, I agree, of course, but should we try to help somehow?

I mean it's easy to turn your head from someone who doesn't want your help.  They just think they do.  But what about writers that post and post and post, and it's really boring because it makes no sense, but maybe somewhere in there is a gem or two?

Maybe I have too much time on my hands.

All I know is that if the editors here hadn't taken the time with me that you did, and not that I'm 'the shit' or 'all that' by any means, but I'd still be writing poetry that even I didn't understand.  I just thought it sounded lofty and lovely.  But really, I was so frustrated, getting nowhere, reading stuff that was so good and had no idea where to start.

It was in the little bitty tiny steps, ya know?

Ok, I'm done.

Did I make sense?

cheryl

Last night I started my little hunt in the woods for literary abstractions.  Found some awesome stuff.  (Ferlinghetti (sp?) is a very funny man.  Wish I'd met him sooner.)

Anyway, I think most of you will love it, and maybe even be enlightened.  So, I'm changing the title to this thread so as not to waste room beginning another one, but I'll be posting poems, videos, and audios here on and off until I feel I've completed my mission -- which is to both entertain and enlighten me and you.

Comments, notices, rejection slips, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Lois Lane

well said, sir.  well said.

tiko

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Hi Tiko, and welcome back from wherever you've been. Or maybe it's me who's been gone. Anyway, seems like it's been awhile since we've had a visit. Actually, regarding Tom's very sexy comment above, I understood the first part, and understood the last part, each separately, but not together. Wonder why that is? Maybe I've forgotten how to do 'exactly as' I 'please', but hell, I know I'm always the best I can be. ; )

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OK, so I best keep my mind on the task at hand. So hard to stay focused these days, you know? Too much time off work.

The following discovery regarding the abstract genre is by far the most fun for me, and the most surprising. I wasn't aware the Beat generation used so much of the abstract in both writing and performance. I won't say anymore about this vid except to advise you the jazz may hurt your ears a bit at first, but hang in there. And if you really get a hankering, there are six more parts. This is just the first one.

A Coney Island of the Mind, Part One:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KmdoivCNuY

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In print, for those with tender ears:

http://www.amazon.com/reader/0811200418?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib%5Fdp%5Fpt#reader

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Allow me to post an abstract poem that blows me away .

http://www.poetsphere.org/index.php?showtopic=335

I look at abstract poetry, or any abstract art
as removing from the subject in the physical; attempting
concrete expression in the spiritual, that is, the impact of the subject matter
had on the feelings of the artist.

It's a melange of spice.

The poem that I posted -- I don't know what she's on about,
but I know what she's on about.

Simile and metaphor is perhaps the first layer of abstraction


Just my two cents.