I imagine you relaxed, in your favorite chair
       leaning back, hands resting, arms at ease

       But when you speak
       when you answer every question

                                     - from ca.leverette ”Literally beautiful and weary”


Only at your last supper are you sitting,
as if it were a posture intermediate
to death.

Otherwise you held yourself erect
even as a babe in arms,

erect as Joseph's helper,
erect at the wedding,
on the Mount,
on the water,
on the hilltop with Satan,

on Golgotha, in resurrection.

But surely as you were a man
you sat,

sat
and had a favorite place to sit,

for if not,
how could you know us
or our sins?

It may have been
a simple stone
beside a quiet stretch
on the road to Tiberias

a place
where sparrows
came down from the air
to harry ants,

or at Magdalen's,
the sofa
where her husband lorded
himself over her
before he walked with
Peter's wife

or did you have
a sparsely furnished room
somewhere
to which you retreated
from evangelist eyes

and simply sat,
for hours,
or days?

You just sit, they say,
in Heaven

a habit
you must have learned
and liked
when you were here,

in a chair
you smuggled back
in the confusion
around the ascension

or built,
the carpenter's son,
from bits of lumber
discarded
by the crucifix maker,

spirited off
by weeping angels
at your command.

When I come, I will sit beside you.
I am tired of standing.

When I come, I will sit beside you.
I am tired of standing.

I don't think I can comment adequately right now. 
I guess everyone is emotional sometimes.  In one
way or another.

Will return,
cheryl

or at Magdalen's,
the stuffed chair
where her husband lorded
himself over her
before he walked with
Peter's wife

the above is my favorite verse;  the empathy demonstrated gives me that lump in my throat kinda feeling.

for if not,
how could you know us
or our sins?

I think the above is why some people don't understand Christianity and/or why we can believe in and worship a God/man who lives now/lived 2000 years ago.

just an afterthought-- I think you mean 'hairy' ants, unless you and Jesus know Harry the Ant, whom I'd love to meet if you do.  lol

Awesome work.  Will be another I return to often.
cheryl 

I'm especially glad you like this poem, since you are its fairy godmother!
I did mean "harry" -- better known as the fairy godmother of its past perfect "harried" -- but maybe it's too little used to be of use here...Thanks, Tom

Wow Tom I missed that completely, and I'm still unsure who 'harry' is ? ? ?

Yeah I love this poem, and I'm trying my best not to blubber and gush over it, because if I get started on all the ramifications, that's exactly what I'll be doing.

And THEN I'll have all these paranoid visions that everyone hates me because I act so foolish.

Geez, will be so glad when I become a balanced, mature OLD woman.  And wouldn't you know it.  I had such a friggin late start.

See how good I am at switching topics?  lol

cheryl

Here's "harry" as I mean it:

harry
–to harass, annoy, or prove a nuisance to by or as if by repeated attacks; worry: He was harried by constant doubts.

I could easily change it, but its usages in aerial situations makes me like it here:

harrier
---any of several short-winged hawks of the genus Circus that hunt over meadows and marshes and prey on reptiles and small birds and mammals.
---a one- or two-seat British-American fighter, both an attack and a reconnaissance aircraft, featuring a turbofan engine with a directable thrust that enables it to land and take off vertically.

But the question you raise, thank you, is whether the word is too obscure. It looks like it might be. I will try to get a few more opinions...Tom

...moving to submit

I did see 'harry' as the word was intended. Heehee, until cherylanne commented, I did not see 'harry ants' in my mind's eye. Just me, if it helps any. Great piece. There is a lot to ponder here, and I love work that makes me ponder. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks, Gabriella. Your note on "harry" helps and I'm glad you enjoyed the poem.
Is there some book or something out there called Harry the Ant or something that I need to be aware of?
Tom

heehee, not that I know of....though there are a LOT of spoofs about Harry Potter...I wouldn't be surprised if you could find one about an ant somewhere...if you REALLY want to look. ;) I don't THINK you have anything to worry about. But, then, what do I know?

Tom, find it fascinating how you have drawn on the iconography, and resultant conventions of religious art. I gather the earliest icons used the conventional depictions of Apollo, to make his face. Not sure that the Coptic branch did the same. This selection seems similar to that made in picking four gospels, out of quite a number (14?), to suit the wishes of early bishops to get conformity. Again, I believe the Coptic branch uses some the rejected gospels. It's interesting how stylised religious art is in depiction, in parallel to conformity in beliefs. Questions: would a painting of the man defecating be blasphemous? make another poem?

Cheers

milner

Oh my heavens, if I was in first grade I'd be jerking my arm off trying to raise my hand.  Not sure that makes sense but perhaps it goes with the territory.

milner, I love your comment and thoughts and questions here.  Wasn't there a big tadoo over a piece of art regarding a man pissing in a jar that offended many Christians (I'll look it up--it was in the 70s, I remember)?  And I think the Christian point was that the man was pissing on Christ.  I have to say, there's no way that's not gonna offend me--paying for art depicting a man pissing on someone I worship and love.  That's just too much to ask.

But a man (or THE man, as you said) defecating?  I think people would be offended, yes.  But I also think they would be very ignorant and narrow-minded to let something like that bother them.  If nothing else, God created all that shit in the first place.

cheryl

What makes someone like Jesus such a fertile figure for art and literature is that so many people has such a spectrum of views and feelings about him, as you Milner and Cheryl illustrate. If a contemporary writer decides to add two cents to the story of Othello, it is a cute literary exercise. But ironically, because of the widely held belief that there is more to Christ's existence than what has been written/painted etc. -- and that some of this existence is available to individuals personally -- Jesus becomes a literary figure that can be enlarged upon by writers/artists over the centuries. As an analogy, look what Milton did with Satan!
Some people believe in a historical man named Jesus, some not, some in a God/man, some not, but as a fairly common denominator we have an ongoing tradition of centuries of song, art, literature etc. that remains open to all artists just as ongoing divine revelation remains available to Quakers.
The noncanonical (sometimes called apocryphal I think) gospels Milner refers to, BYW -- fascinating reading. Tom

Bob, though his pals called him Chippy.

milner

Joshua = Jesus, my wife says. So..."Josh's Favorite Chair". Tried it out myself, Silent, and is fun as you suggest, but seems to me to be mostly a distraction. Ultimately, the poem about yearning for salvation/relief/rest, and my real choice is between "Christ" and "Jesus". What makes so many of us able to attach our yearnings to this figure? For some, the humanness implicit in Jesus is key, for others, the power and majesty implicit in "Christ". Thanks...will continue thinking about name...Tom

I really enjoyed this, especially as I'm reading Paradise Lost in the moment, and thus have lots of biblical fish swimming in my head.

I love how contemporary it feels, with such old subject matter.

james

Glad you are enjoying this James. PL is such a monument to me because, in it, Milton actually created new theology -- features of the theological story -- with such power that it has become quite commonly accepted, as if it was from scriptural revelation. Wow. Tom

My thoughts exactly. It's pretty mindblowing; especially that bit where Satan is floating through the inchoate universe, looking for earth. Stupendous.

It must be so rare for a writer to get that clarity and intensity of vision, don't you think?

Abso.
It's like he was there. It's like he is Satan. This kind of imagination blows my mind too.

Don't know how ancient the practice is, but probably the mohel did apply an annointing to the cut, so that every circumcised boy becomes christos.

Heh...why not leave the name out of the title? Hehee...call it Lazyboy...(j.k)...but seriously. Something like Privelege Seat or something less corny, heh

Thanks, Gabriella. I could see maybe just "Your favorite chair" from epigraph. You think that would work as well, or better? Tom

Please forgive me if I sound rude regarding this comment, and please know that it's certainly not a personal attack on anyone or anyone's comments here, at all, but I'm having a hard time understanding why using 'Christ' in the title is a problem to the extent that it is here.

Maybe it's a quandary to me because I'm a Christian and I do believe in Christ.

But I wonder this as well.  Could this be an example of what Larry was talking about in his discussion 'Risk' (I'll post the link)?  Could it be that because Christ is Christ and not a generic title be the reason readers are suggesting other names?

If that's so I would have to say keeping 'Christ' in the title is the best thing to do for that very reason.  The narrator's not talking about 'the spirit in the sky' as the 60s song, not talking about Allah or Buddha, or 'the man upstairs' -- the Christ the narrator writes about is the one mentioned in the Bible, for whom there are several names, but they're all the same person.  I don't know them all off the top of my head but I can find them very quickly.

So, I guess the point of this reply, Tom, is to give you my opinion which is to keep 'Christ' in the title (sounds almost like I'm saying 'keep prayer in school' almost) because that's who you're talking about;  in fact I'll go on to say that using another name would lessen poem;  it would be obvious you're trying to water down the title, which is never appealing to me, don't know about anyone else.

Also my point is to say that I believe you're aware of the ramifications of using 'Christ' in the title of a poem or even speaking positively of him in the body of the poem, as you do here.  SO, I won't even go there.  It's not like you started writing poetry yesterday.

And please, please understand, for anyone reading this reply, it's not meant to be negative or critical of one single thing said here.  It's just my opinion.

Now, I'll find those names, Tom, I think there are seven, and post them, as well as the link to Larry's discussion, which is a good one, by the way, for anyone who hasn't visited the discussion forum lately.

cheryl

Better said, these are the names for God in the Bible  The ones I couldn't remember are the 'Jehovah' titles and there are nine not seven (sorry about all-caps, hurts my eyes too, but it was c&p):
ELOHIM:  God Creator, Preserver, Transcendent, Mighty and Strong
EL SHADDAI:  God Almighty or "God All Sufficient"
ADONAI:  "Master'' or "Lord"
JEHOVAH:  LORD, Yahweh, Jehovah Elohim, "The Self-Existent One," "I AM WHO I AM", "I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE"
JEHOVAH-JIREH:  "The Lord will Provide." 
JEHOVAH-ROPHE:  "The Lord Who Heals"
JEHOVAH-NISSI:  "The Lord Our Banner"
JEHOVAH-M'KADDESH:  "The Lord Who Sanctifies"
JEHOVAH-SHALOM:  "The Lord Our Peace"
JEHOVAH ELOHIM:  "LORD God"
JEHOVAH-TSIDKENU:  "The Lord Our Righteousness"
JEHOVAH-ROHI:  "The Lord Our Shepherd"
JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH:  "The Lord is There"
*********************************
If it were my poem and I HAD to change the title I'd probably change it to Adonai because it just sounds good to me, and it's used in the New Testament.  But looking above, Shalom might work, in reference to peace since 'rest' is mentioned in the poem.

LOL, Simply put, I thought leaving "Christ" out of the title gave it more of an invitation to read...When you read the piece, you get plenty of "Christ," making it uneccessary and redundant in the title. This is regardless of any beliefs or religions. Just poetry :) Tom, I think that would work great. Perhaps just "Favorite Chair"?

Tom
superb work, as usual
it's your poem
but just so you know, the title worked fine for me

Stella

Thanks, Cheryl and Stella and Gabriella.
Stella, glad you enjoyed the poem (title or no title)!
Cheryl, it may be that some of the tempest over "Christ" is not strictly poetics. If so, so be it. (He would not have minded, a lightningrod, never shied from controversy, made peeps uneasy then, makes us uneasy now, right?) All part of the discussion.
Re title, Gabriella, if you think it's a more inviting title without "Christ", that means something to me. I thought the opposite. The main factor I am considering is that the poem is in 2nd person, addressed to Christ, so "Christ's Favorite Chair" is a bit out of voice compared to "Your favorite chair -- so I'm weighing that problem against watering down the strikingness of the title.
You have probably noticed some pretty dull titles on my stuff over the months because I tend to use the title that best suits the poem rather than best gooses the audience. If I change to "Your favorite chair," it will be another instance of that, I'm afraid.
Thanks all, Tom

Ah man, I like the title. Keep it.

He would not have minded, a lightningrod, never shied from controversy, made peeps uneasy then, makes us uneasy now, right?

One thing I am sure of is the above.  ^^^  And by the same token, I don't think we have the slightest idea how God/Jesus would react to certain things.  We ascribe our feelings and thoughts to him.  And I bet that doesn't bother him either.  lol

So glad to see this poem receiving such awesome responses.  Deserves it.

cheryl   

Thanks, James. It's still there.

Cheryl, your comment make me think of how the old Greek writers were always placing their gods in various situations in their poems etc. to play their role as characters - no writer considered the final word, more scriptural than the others. So when you look up the myths, there are all different versions.--Tom

Yeah, I think we have this innate drive to explain things, or understand them, not always realizing there's much more to the picture than our minds.  And then, of all things, we take our made up explanations and hurt people with them.  Downright ignorant, if you ask me.

Something that's always impressed me about the Bible is that there's scientific proof it's written over a huge span of time by many different writers, yet the big picture is always the same, no matter what time or what writer.

cheryl

Wonder if its stylistic diversity helped inspire Moby Dick. Some of those technical chapters are like sections of Leviticus, Exodus, Numbers. Chapter 1 "Loomings" a creation story of sorts...?

just for the sake of trivia

 AD - or anno domini is Latin I think for 'In the Year of Our Lord' So using that system everything before his birth is BC and everything after is one o' his years.
Of course we do use bce and ce now - so that problem is mute!

Christ's Divan is a great title, Silent, I agree! Too funny for this poem, but if you don't use it...sue me when I do.

Thank you, Lavonne. Seems weird that one is Latin and one is Anglo-Saxon (is it really just "Before Christ"?). I wonder how the Italians do it. (Cheryl, no dirty joke here, please.) Tom

Strange, I know, but true.

Silent, Turkish!
Main Entry: di·van 
Etymology: Turkish, from Persian dīvān account book
Date: 1586
1 a : the privy council of the Ottoman Empire b : council
2 : a council chamber
3 : a large couch usually without back or arms often designed for use as a bed
4 : a collection of poems in Persian or Arabic usually by one author

Pete Popoff hands-on healer
seated next to Ed McMahon
does not enjoy that famous couch
but only Christ's divan.

Ian Paisley righteous pastor
who enjoys his black and tan
will take a stool in any pub
but only Christ's divan.

Bill Simmons pious Wizard
of the modern Ku Klux Klan
set wooden cross upon his back
but only Christ's divan.

I really like this one, Tom.  Up it goes.

Rick

Bless you, Rick! It's truly been fun chatting with everyone about Christ, but I also did have hopes for the poem itself. Tom

lol 

two thumbs up, Tom.

glad to find this. fantastic set up and execution (and most crucially the two appear seamless.)

Mike! Glad you like it. Tom

Who did this?!
I honesty didn't think anything could cheer me up today, I'm as sick as two dogs.
Thank you. Tom

I missed this one until now.  Someone mentioned the contemporary feel given ancient material -- ditto that!  There's a peace sought after in this poem, a dream of an image of rest or respite, of retiring, of bird-watching, of being more at one with everything still and/or moving about us.  Great pick for FP!

ld

Thanks Lynn & Silent. Good to have e-company. No one else'll come near me! Tom

Awesome!!

a pleasure to see this on the Front Page
congratulations, Tom


Stella

Thanks, Cheryl.
Thank you too, Stella.
And thank you, Rick.
Very proud to be here.
Tom

just caught up with this enjoyed the feel tones and the discussion. mel

Mel, thanks for looking in, glad you enjoyed. Tom