I just wonder if anyone else ever stumbles on this. The borders of language are out there, and some things can't be expressed in words. Another problem is that between internal and external language; the words in my head are accompanied by many things, affections, memories etc. But when I speak, all those other things that thoughts are made of disappear (so I don't like to read poetry out loud).

What one can't speak of, one can't speak of... The best poetry is right there on the edge though.

Interesting questions, Mikael. Will be thinking about them....Tom

great topic! language is inherently defective. it is distressing to me to see contemporary english being economized. have you ever read Wittgenstein? check him out.

deh

Mikael, "some things can't be expressed in words." Lots of collateral issues. What image process is one experiencing when experiencing what he/she believes can not be expressed in words? In addition to Wittgenstein, I suggest Lyn Hejinian; The Language of Inquiry. Also Bob Perelman.

larry

What Cannot be Said

This is the major theme of the Tractatus as a whole: since propositions merely express facts about the world, propositions in themselves are entirely devoid of value. The facts are just the facts. Everything else, everything about which we care, everything that might render the world meaningful, must reside elsewhere. (Tractatus 6.4) A properly logical language, Wittgenstein held, deals only with what is true. Aesthetic judgments about what is beautiful and ethical judgments about what is good cannot even be expressed within the logical language, since they transcend what can be pictured in thought. They aren't facts. The achievement of a wholly satisfactory description of the way things are would leave unanswered (but also unaskable) all of the most significant questions with which traditional philosophy was concerned. (Tractatus 6.5)

Thus, even the philosophical achievements of the Tractatus itself are nothing more than useful nonsense; once appreciated, they are themselves to be discarded. The book concludes with the lone statement:

    "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

(Tractatus 7) This is a stark message indeed, for it renders literally unspeakable so much of human life. As Wittgenstein's friend and colleague Frank Ramsey put it,

    "What we can't say we can't say, and we can't whistle it either."

I like tractatus, but haven't read the whole piece. I don't think it's his best work though but I enjoy the idea of things being impossible to be said.

I am guilty as charged of being inspired from the last passages in tractatus. It's analytical philosophy going spiritual, such a contradiction :)

You take the ladder and climb up, only to realize once your up that there never was a ladder.

Thanks for the tips Larry, will check em out.