PoetryCircle
Contemporary
Poetry
Forum
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
«
PoetryCircle
•
The Writing
•
Front page
•
Front page archive
• Topic:
Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
»
Thread
Tools
Print
(Read 3645 times)
1
2
3
[
All
]
Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
on:
February 24, 2009, 09:28:02 PM »
by
jamesthomashoward
I.
All the cotton wool is sold, michael.
Not a shimmy in the town
& in a metal-hulked broth pot
miniature sheep swim lengths frothingly.
II.
This nose, this ugly nose –
be this my place? Long rotten carrot
with my buttons & sponging scarf –
this scene a sugar-toothed donkey?
I’ve prayed for hot-fudge rain to come
& do what my stumped hands will not.
III.
They smothered tiny jimmy
with an electric blanket –
it smelt of sweat and burnt cooking apples.
His mechanical train-set
was one of the few things left behind.
IV.
One day it was so achingly
cold there was no news.
V.
Mocking carp & the eight tongues of the ice squid
out-poked, licker-smack.
As the loosely clothed man falls through,
a voice sonars like an s.o.s. –
what time will you be checking in, mr houdini?
Mr Houdini?
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #1 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:11:24 AM »
by
brian_edwards
I'm a little confused by the ending James. Is that Harry Houdini you're referring to? I'm reading it as Houdini drowning in a frozen lake, but didn't he die of a ruptured appendix? Maybe it's not so important but those last two lines gave me quite a bump.
Not getting much from IV but the first three are great. III packs quite a punch.
B.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #2 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:20:50 AM »
by
jamesthomashoward
Hi Brian,
You're on the ball as ever; I did have an explanatory note to this one, but took it off...but it's coming back:
this poem was written at the height of the recent snowstorms in england, which closed the schools and transport etc. a lot of people wrote bad poems about the snow...I wanted to write one that looked around the scene, hinting at it, instead of straight into it. But I really have to explain the Houdini stanza:
from a tiny age up until the age of twenty, I had this notion that Mr Houdini had died by being pushed into a frozen lake by rival magicians. I had this recurring dream of it, of him scratching desperately against the ice, trying to get out and suck oxygen. Now, the weird thing for me is that this is an absolute fabrication! I read about Houdini when I was a wee man, but still thought this story was true up until recently. So the last section is basically an interpretation of that dream, which I intended to tie in with the distractions of the other sections; it's about misdirection I suppose.
As to stanza four, I thought it was the best: ieveryone's frozen, even the news readers, so there's no news to report in the poem...
maybe I'm wrong about both of those though, and chatting waffle...
thanks for looking in, and excuse the essay...
james
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #3 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:25:30 AM »
by
brian_edwards
One day it was so frozen
there was no news.
One frozen day
there was no news.
Just tinkering. I like the idea, but not getting it from the execution.
I like the Houdini stanza too actually, should've said that, but those two lines seem too important not to get and not getting them caused the bump.
Now I'm waffling.
(thought u were going to bed)
B.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #4 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:27:49 AM »
by
Tom Riordan
O Captain! My Captain! Here come the wayward winds, James! Put sumthat cotton in your ears. I'm a flip on Brian's take: like IV even think of snow on TV that blanks news, but think III out of step, too long a stretch from snow! But the whole poem intriguing, great L1 sets up lot of confidence so I let go and let you take me. Tom
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #5 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:31:03 AM »
by
jamesthomashoward
Brian, good idea (the second one). Will consider nicking it. Was in bed, cannae sleep, occasional insomnia; got the next few decades to recover, so not really a problem.
I'm not sure about the Houdini stanza myself--too much of a darling?
waffling's ok now that it's not shrove tuesday,
james
------------
and tom, i'm standing on my desk as we speak! III is a bit of a stretch, but I'm not one to tinker with a crime scene ;). thanks
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #6 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:32:19 AM »
by
brian_edwards
One of the many joys of workshops Tom!
As I mentioned above, I do like the intent behind IV but think it could be executed . . . . better (damn, I hate using that word)
And I like III for the exact reason you don't! It is a stretch from snow, yes, which leads this reader back to the title (which you probably didn't even read ::) )
B.
:)
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #7 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:35:19 AM »
by
jamesthomashoward
How about taking out the bbc english of IV, making it more minimal and reflective of content. liiiike:
frozen day,
no news.
hmmm...
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #8 on:
February 25, 2009, 02:36:04 AM »
by
brian_edwards
I'll wait for Tom to answer and then disagree.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #9 on:
February 25, 2009, 09:25:54 AM »
by
Tom Riordan
Quote from: brian_edwards on February 25, 2009, 02:32:19 AM
And I like III for the exact reason you don't! It is a stretch from snow, yes, which leads this reader back to the title (which you probably didn't even read ::) )
In this case, I do remember reading it, but not as carefully as I might have and not paying as much attention to it as I might have, either. Whether a reader "should" read titles more carefully or pay more attention to them, and whether a reader "should" do anything, is a good question; I wish I did pay more attention; but it's valuable for us to know what readers actually do do, for what it's worth, and I know from discussion that other readers also give the title short shrift unless the writer compels them to pay more attention to it.
Look at how readers treat footnotes, Introductions, Prefaces. Whether you read at all or carefullly all depends on how much juice you have learned to expect from different components
James, can't say that "frozen day/no news" holds any charms for me.
The case of Houdini is interesting! How many times have I read that an author or filmmaker intentionally or unintentionally altered reality and ended up causing a permanent distortion in the public's "memory" of what the facts were, even to the point of the created mis-fact later showing up in history, biography, et. Your Houdini death story, James, has a bit of that power in it.
-Tom
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #10 on:
February 25, 2009, 09:30:49 AM »
by
brian_edwards
And now Tom and I agree!
frozen day/no news ---- not working for me James.
I like the Houdini line too and think it should stay. You could maybe give the reader another line at the start of the stanza to anchor the last, but it's pleasingly enigmatic as is, for me.
B.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #11 on:
February 25, 2009, 09:40:01 AM »
by
brian_edwards
Perhaps the old maxim " do unto others . . . ." sums up my thinking regards titles, footnotes, epigraphs, etc.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #12 on:
February 25, 2009, 09:47:59 AM »
by
Tom Riordan
Quote from: brian_edwards on February 25, 2009, 02:36:04 AM
I'll wait for Tom to answer and then disagree.
Scout's Honor, Brain, when I wrote down my thoughts about the S3 and S4, I hadn't read your post, then got one of those "someone else has posted" when I went to post it, and rewrote it acknowledging the "dispute"! Tom
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #13 on:
February 25, 2009, 09:52:28 AM »
by
Tom Riordan
Quote from: brian_edwards on February 25, 2009, 09:40:01 AM
Perhaps the old maxim " do unto others . . . ." sums up my thinking regards titles, footnotes, epigraphs, etc.
I hear that! Not always willing to follow the "do" part, here or elsewhere in life, so for me it's more "Don't expect from others as you would have them not expect from you."
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #14 on:
February 25, 2009, 11:34:17 PM »
by
Lynn Doiron
I like this, james. Have to say I have reread the little Jimmy stanza more than others -- whether for bump or because it intrigues because the sensory images veer so far outside the box creating plus interest rather than minus -- can't say. But vigorous and fresh -- yes. I can say yes to all of that.
ld
Logged
My blogs:
http://lwww.lynndoiron.wordpress.com
for memoir/journal/poetry
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #15 on:
February 26, 2009, 11:07:23 AM »
by
Christina Paradis
Hello James-
Steeped in Wallace Stevens lately I couldn't help but notice the resemblance to Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird (full text here:
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15746
)
The houdini stanza is my favorite, even without the explanation. I do wonder why he is loosely clothed, when I always picture him tightly bound with a key between his teeth, struggling. But I love ending on a breathless note, waiting for his response.
Regards,
Christina
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #16 on:
February 26, 2009, 11:27:54 AM »
by
Lynn Doiron
I thought of the blackbirds too. I once wrote a piece called Nine Ways of Looking at a Green Garden Hose. Nothing to compare with ways not to look at snow, or ways to look at blackbirds, but ...
You are fast becoming one of my favorite poets on site, james.
ld
Logged
My blogs:
http://lwww.lynndoiron.wordpress.com
for memoir/journal/poetry
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #17 on:
February 26, 2009, 08:13:47 PM »
by
larry jordan
James, nicely done. needs to move to the editor's board, so I will.
larry
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #18 on:
February 26, 2009, 08:43:04 PM »
by
brian_edwards
Excellent pick Larry.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #19 on:
February 27, 2009, 06:39:44 AM »
by
Mike Barrett
Like five dream scenes, muffled by snow.
I wouldn't have got V unless you told me, so along with the rest, I feel it works best as a surreal moment.
Fresh.
Logged
.. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #20 on:
February 28, 2009, 03:14:52 PM »
by
jamesthomashoward
Thank you everyone. Christina, nice to meet you, Stevens was certainly on the tip of my tongue when writing this.
cheers,
james
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #21 on:
February 28, 2009, 07:36:35 PM »
by
Rick Stansberger
I'm not a fan of licker-smack, but I love the last 2 lines. Great closure.
Logged
Rick's fifth book is out: Gizmo--love, loss and the passion to know--in the first part of the last century.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #22 on:
March 01, 2009, 05:11:24 PM »
by
Jill Winkowski
I love this. I have to say. I like the way you get at meaning through back doors.
I do get thrown by Houdini.
Jill
Logged
"FOR God's sake hold your tongue, and let me love ;" John Donne, The Canonization
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #23 on:
April 02, 2009, 11:33:38 AM »
by
larry jordan
I tossed back and forth between two poems this week and have decided to pick this wonderful reading experience. It is decidedly not narrative. It is not telling us of something in the "world." It uses words as couplings of unlikely sounds and references to prod an experience that keeps snow in the face on the "nose." There are some momnets that may not work perfectly, but I found myself working in its language in the way we wriggle in the blankets for that perfect comforting moment. The poem also presents a way of reading that may be more for poets rather than non poets. I am reminded that Ron Silliman (I think) said once that poetry tends to be read by poets as its craft lends itself to deeper shoveling. I also find that this can be read quickly without mulling over whether there is a puzzle of meaning. Its meanings are new and come from carefully placed images. Sense grows between the reader and the work, not the reader's memory of an event that the poem merely triggered.
I think it is nice add to the diversity of 'poetics' the site seems to draw.
larry
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #24 on:
April 02, 2009, 12:42:57 PM »
by
milner place
Good pick, Larry, and great to see it up the front, James.
milner
Logged
'Caminante, no hay camino,
se hace camino al andar'
- Antonio Machado
Latest book 'naked invitation' $15 or £10, p&p inc
milnerplace@msn.com
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #25 on:
April 02, 2009, 12:44:54 PM »
by
Lynn Doiron
Great choice. Enjoyed reading this again. And also enjoyed reading the reasoning for the choice made, Larry.
Congrats, james!
ld
Logged
My blogs:
http://lwww.lynndoiron.wordpress.com
for memoir/journal/poetry
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #26 on:
April 02, 2009, 01:38:26 PM »
by
Jill Winkowski
Loved it the first time and love it now. Congrats!
Logged
"FOR God's sake hold your tongue, and let me love ;" John Donne, The Canonization
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #27 on:
April 02, 2009, 01:45:15 PM »
by
Tom Riordan
Hey, congrats, James. Tom
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #28 on:
April 02, 2009, 08:16:58 PM »
by
EB
well played Larry
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #29 on:
April 03, 2009, 06:51:33 AM »
by
jamesthomashoward
Dear Larry, a fine honour indeed, thank you. I appreciate hearing your views on this poem, and think you raise an intriguing discussion regarding writing for poets etc. I think this would make a worthy topic on the discussions board. Please let us know of the other poem you were wriggling with. Bows to everyone else for their two penneth, James.
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #30 on:
April 03, 2009, 11:15:28 AM »
by
brian_edwards
Bravo Bravo!
Clapping and cheering here James.
Great pick Larry, really enjoyed the notes too. Always great to find a different name on the front page, especially when it is a writer as fine as James. Many more to come I am sure.
Bravo!!
B.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #31 on:
April 03, 2009, 12:11:03 PM »
by
Mike Barrett
Good to see something of yours on the front page; about time, I say.
Logged
.. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #32 on:
April 04, 2009, 10:14:54 PM »
by
Eamonn S
Didn't care for this much. Lot of orphan images and an overwrought title.
I'm sure someone will reproach me indirectly to reaffirm praise that was already given, but before someone takes up that ostensibly noble cause, give it a thought or two.
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #33 on:
April 05, 2009, 09:34:11 AM »
by
silent lotus
Quote from: larry jordan on April 02, 2009, 11:33:38 AM
I tossed back and forth between two poems this week and have decided to pick this wonderful reading experience. It is decidedly not narrative. It is not telling us of something in the "world." It uses words as couplings of unlikely sounds and references to prod an experience that keeps snow in the face on the "nose." There are some momnets that may not work perfectly, but I found myself working in its language in the way we wriggle in the blankets for that perfect comforting moment. The poem also presents a way of reading that may be more for poets rather than non poets. I am reminded that Ron Silliman (I think) said once that poetry tends to be read by poets as its craft lends itself to deeper shoveling. I also find that this can be read quickly without mulling over whether there is a puzzle of meaning. Its meanings are new and come from carefully placed images. Sense grows between the reader and the work, not the reader's memory of an event that the poem merely triggered.
I think it is nice add to the diversity of 'poetics' the site seems to draw.
larry
Dear James
I agree with Larry and others about your qualities
and offer my congratulations.
Also it would be most enjoyable
if more editors had the graciousness to offer
such words as Larry has in explanation for their choice
of front page. Sharing such insight is a gift to the ears
of those so many who are searching.
a warm smile
silent lotus
Logged
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #34 on:
April 05, 2009, 09:54:51 AM »
by
jamesthomashoward
thank you sl, and i agree: larry is exemplary. James
Logged
Cough.
Re: Five Ways of Not Looking at Snow
«
Reply #35 on:
April 07, 2009, 07:39:08 PM »
by
brian_edwards
I've been enjoying this poem all week and just realised you originally posted it on my birthday! Another reason to enjoy.
B.
Logged
(Read 3645 times)
1
2
3
[
All
]
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
The Writing
-----------------------------
=> Editors' picks
=> Submit your poetry
=> Submit your prose
=> Challenges
=> Journalese
=> Front page
===> Front page archive
===> Archive 2010
===> - Archive 2011
-----------------------------
The Community
-----------------------------
=> Introductions
=> Discussions
=> Off topic
=> Interviews
=> Sights and sounds
=> Notices
-----------------------------
The Site
-----------------------------
=> Editors
=> Questions
Member
Tools
Home
Help
Calendar
Members List
Statistics
Login
Register
Latest
News
PoetryCircle joins IBPC.
Site
Stats
190903
Posts
18095
Topics
1517
Members
Latest Member:
David Gwilym Anthony
Support PoetryCircle
PoetryCircle | Powered by
SMF 1.1.15
.
© 2005,
Simple Machines
. All Rights Reserved.
Simplicity
design by
BlocWeb