She dies every year
at this time.
I'd forgotten when I phoned.

Her first weary word, dragged
waist deep through widow mud,
reminded me.

It was six winters ago
that he died but
until the thaw

you can't bury the dead.

Scott,

I really like this, I might drop the 2nd line in the last verse...it's redundant.  I'd look at that 3rd line in the 2nd verse and determine if it really should be flagging way out to the right field. 

Third verse is beautiful, I wonder if those first 2 lines are the beginning of the poem?

Just my thoughts,
Tim

I like this poem.  My intuition is telling me there's a ways to shake it a bit to it settles into a tighter form, but I odn't know what that is, yet.

thanks Tim and Rick

I could see shaking this up a bit too.
Tim is thinking (I believe) to cut down on the phone call part.
You're probably right about the second last line, Tim.
I wasn't sure if people generally realise you can't bury someone in the winter.

How about:

It was six years ago
that he died but
until the thaw

you can't bury the dead

Cheers

milner

Some beautiful poem in here, Scott. But the "mud" in L5 clashes with "you have to wait for a thaw,"  to my mind. Keep at it, it's a good one. Tom

thanks Milner and Tom


I adopted (poetry for 'stole') your more succinct idea, Milner.

I don't know if my title is a stretch. It means that she hasn't buried the past yet
and so wading through the mud kind of plays off that.

But the entire theme may be ill conceived.


I'm sure Brian will tell me if it is.

:)

Scott, wading through mud is a true symbol.  it conveys to me the slowing of a journey the feeling of being stuck, the grave.   

I think the title does resonant with the mud image.

My god, Scott...you've honed this down now to pure essence and I've read it three times already and simply want to read it again.  That 2nd verse is pure gold and I like the flip of lines you made at the end, even more potent than before.

I stand humbled.
Tim

In fact, Scott, on my fourth reading just now, I wondered why this isn't on the Editor's picks.  It is now.

Tim

thanks Tim

a wise man advised me on that last stanza
but I was wise enough to listen.

thanks Sue
It's good to have a variety of opinions
because sometimes parts of a poem
only seem to work inside my own head. 

Amazing poem, Scott.  Excellent pick.

lynn

So nice. Great work on this one. I especially like tone and irony in this two verses below:

She dies every year
at this time.
I'd forgotten when I phoned.

Her first weary word, dragged
waist deep through widow mud,
reminded me.

Something awkward in these lines below:

until the thaw

you can't bury the dead.

Jill

thanks Lynn, Silent Lotus
and Jill.

when you say awkward
I'm not sure if you mean the meaning behind the words
or something more technical.

in northern climates
you can't (or don't) bury people until spring
because the ground is frozen up to five feet deep.

I'm trying to use that as a symbol that my mother will
continually 'die' on the anniversary of my father's death
until she comes to terms with it and finds some peace.

maybe that theme isn't working well enough in the poem.
maybe it needs a little more set up
or abandon it altogether.
but that theme kind of IS the poem.

I'd be curious as to what you mean.
don't misconstrue my extended explanation
as a defence of the poem.
it's a rather new poem
so it sometimes takes time to see straight.

thanks


 

Scott, I'm late to this, but I have a number of problems reading through these lines.

"widow mud" --- what does that mean? Are you coining a new phrase here? Are you implying that dealing with a spouse's death is like walking though mud? If so, that is a generalisation. If not, I don't know what elese you are aiming for.

To be honest, that whole second stanza feels like I'm being dragged through mud as a reader. "weary word" reads as, well, weary, to my ear.

In the final strophe, the logic of being 6 years dead before thawed, although being poetically quite brilliant, demands a suspension of disbelief that is not earned by what has occurred prior.

In my opinion . . . .

B.

Hi Brian

I was hoping you would chime in.
I wasn't sure if I had earned what I was going for in this either.
Some people beat themselves up for many years after their spouse dies.
I'm not sure if six years is unbelievable.
The word 'interment' in the title sybolizes the burial of this grief.

Can you suggest anything ?


thanks
 

I love to analyse poems
so don't see this as a defense of this poem.
It's kind of like a joke.
If you have to explain it, well who cares ?

:)

but I like  the fact that you have to drag yourself through the line,
'Her first weary word, dragged
waist deep through widow mud,'

it's kind of an onomatopoeia sentence.
there I go coining another phrase.

Scott,

I dont think six years is an unreasonable period for grief . . . .I know enough about grief to know that is not so. It's the language of the poem that bogs me down (ha!) : mud, thaw, interment and six years 'specially.

I know this is important to you, will think some more.

B.

Hi Scott, I think I have more of an idea of what I mean. The last line is in second person--a generality and nothing about this poem has been general up to that point. I think Brian's idea about the thaw is what I was feeling that a spring thaw wasn't working with six years. The widow is in mud and then the ground is frozen. The metaphors conflicted for me. I like widow mud. I understand it. I like the syntax of the second stanza, the way it develops.

I have an idea for title
"Interment"
Then we can think of interment for father and, metaphorically, for mother.

not bad, not bad.

I like the title idea.
I'm not sure how to procede yet with the contradictions.

thanks
 

how about the last line:

'he won't be buried' ? 

I like the new title and the suggested new last line, but something is still not working for me with this metaphor. Probably akin to what Jill has pointed out.

On another point, in my opinion, this is one reason why the current editor's picks system doesn't work. Here we have a poem that the author himself accepts isn't really working, yet the decision of one editor overrides that and places it in an apparently superior context. Surely the author should decide whether or not a poem is ready for picking? Maybe one for discussions board (though I can hear the silence already . . . . )

B.

Scott,

Tim beat me to it - maybe you could drop the word "weary"  - maybe not.  Maybe you could replace the word "widow" with something else.  Maybe not.  Maybe it's a work in progress, maybe it's done.  Regardless the overall piece clicks for me.  I would have picked it too. 

There are piece I have changed years later because the exact word I was looking for clicked into place.  Some I haven't changed at all because they ended up being just right.  Now I'm babbling.  lol

xo M

ps.  Brian, I wasn't aware that the current picks system doesn't work or that anyone felt that way.  If you have a concern, please start a discussion board thread.  xo M

I've found
the old maxim:
a poem is never finished
only abandoned
is true,
at least for me.

I'm opened minded toward changes to my poems.
 

I've modified my earlier post for clarity.

Scott, a good attitude and one I share.

B.

I'm curious how you believe that I think it isn't working
as opposed to firing on all cylinders. 

I don't like using the word "works" regarding a poem, though I know I use it all the time. I should check myslf for that. Same goes for the word "good".

What I meant was that you are still tinkering and seem to be questioning what you have written in terms of intention and effect.

B.

then I don't understand your previous post.
are you agreeing with the maxim
or on being open minded ?

Are they different?

Ah, I see. Interesting. I need to think on this.

sorry, I posted this before reading your previous post.


I guess not.  ("are they different ?")
then at what point is something "a pick" ?

I like the poem.
I think the idea of coming to terms with an event
is akin to burying it.  

the blend of a physical and mental burial IS the poem
to me.
so therefore it works, the rest is clean up.
(not necessarily easy)

but as I said earlier
to defend a poem is like explaining a joke.
either you laugh or you don't.

even if the premise is not 100% sound (hypothetically)
it can still be an effective poem because the reader
has experienced whatever it is that is liked about poetry.

 
I hope you realise that I just enjoy discussing things
and that I am in no way emotional.

I'm the ice man, remember ?

:)
 

Way back, Scott, I thought the widow being in the mud didn't quite make sense since the ground was supposed to sbe frozen. Then I made my peace with it because it was the widow's interment, not the man's, that the poem was about; so I thought, she's interred in her mud because she has been unable to bury her husband. But the title change makes that reading less sound, so I'm back to my original problem. Tom

Superb, Scott.  My own "widow's mud" has thinned over the years, but there are particular dates that, in order to move on, one galosh or the other is sucked off and stays behind.  Especially like the close on this; for some, the thaw never comes; the dead remain unburied. 

lynn

Scott,

This is fine, fine poetry. From the heart,
severs the jugular. Etched in indelible ink.

                          Ken

Bravo, Maggie. Bravo, Scott.

milner

Well done.  An excellent pick for front page.  Great job Scott.

a great surprise.
thanks for putting me on your welcome mat.

I'm honoured.
 

This is a wonderful read, thanks.

I just twittered you Scott!

Poetrycircle at Twitter.com

I thought I felt something?!
:)
I'll check that out.

...and thanks to you also EMH.

OMG!  I'd totally forgotten about this poem.  Scott, this is just as striking as the first time I read it.  I couldn't be more enthused about it being on the Front Page.

Tim

Ditto praise and congratulations Mr Douglas.

James