kj 15feb09

Very powerful story, Ken.
Brings back something that happened in my family a while back. When the Red Army liberated Nazi camps, they had scribes who copied down graffiti from everywhere, and then in decades after the war, a few people sorting through and translating; so my wife's greataunt got a note from Soviets in the 60's with the text of one griffito scrawled on a wall by a young cousin, asking whoever read it to transmit the date that her mother had been shot to her cousin Israel Sachs (wife's greataunt) in Boston, so that yahrzeit might be observed.
-Tom

Tom, now yours is what I call a powerful story.  Thanks for sharing.  You know I can never hear about the death camps without having an image of a murderous commandant relaxing to Beethoven's Eroica or any of the thousand chills in "Bent".  It's strange indeed to think of receiving a message transcribed from graffiti years, decades after a person was killed.  In such a way individuals can still shine through darkness.

k

Very strong poem; the end line is amazing.  Am wondering if months needs a possessive apostrophe.  And thinking this is a pick but will give more time here in Submit, unless someone beats me to it.

lynn

 Lynn,  thanks a bunch for the pick, I'm very honoured.  This one flew into my head and demanded to be heard.  So delighted it survived the journey.  I'm learning so much from the wonderful spirits on this site... especially learning to listen and weigh every word for its contribution.

thanks again,   k

Rod, big thanks for your appreciation and support.  Focus is my current pre-occupation.  I try to focus on something or a situation, and see it from all angles.  It's actually really tough (well it is for me) but with this one it worked... that's where the last line came from, that focus that showed me how sharp the blade would be to hold and use.

Have you been writing a long while?  I spotted a ref to you having a notebook...
k

Hi

I'm pretty sure "prisoners" should be "prisoner's".
sad poem
but well done.
 




 

Hi Scott and many thanks.... I wanted to do this without punctuation. Punctuation and prisoners didn't seem to go.  Have I lost something?

thnx,  k 

hard to say.
it does slow the reader up a bit in those places
(same for "months") trying to piece it together,
but only slightly.

 

Just me, but I think it works without the punctuation this time around.  I keep trying to imagine the prisoner [and I know this is a leap from poem and poet and keyboard and actual writing of poem to the wall and the blade] bleeding apostrophes onto the wall and I don't see that happening.  If you'd put one apostrophe in and not the other, well, a different story.  I like this as you have it -- but it's just one opinion.

Appreciated Scott and Lynn.  It does feel right this time without punctuation.  Partly because of the subject (and your imaginative leap puts it vividly Lynn) and also because I did want to slow the reader down, .. find a way of checking their eyes, asking if they've really looked close?  Personally I struggle with long poems without punctuation. 

k

well played, this is beautiful

I agree it's very beautifully written, but it comes as across as cliche to me. Prisoner scratching on a wall; blade procured probably by granting sexual favours (which seems a little far fetched) --- these are quite familiar motifs in any prison story. And the wings are a pretty heavy handed symbol.

I also wonder, is it meant to be laid out like that? It's not very attractive on the page. Did you want it all centred? If so, you you should enter a few returns at the top of the post to take it down past your profile picture, which causes it to screw up sometimes.

Sorry Kev, hate to be negative, but I have to be honest.

B.

Very strong poem.  It's almost as if the words disappear under the images.

Rick

go, kevin! tom

Kevin, despite my earlier comments (which I stand by ;) ) it's always great to see a new face on the front page.

Congratulations my friend!

B.

I love that this made the Front! 

ld

Yeah, good work, Kevin!

Well placed now, Kevin.

Cheers

milner

Just realised --- should months be month's?

B -- see earlier discussion regarding possessive apostrophes in this one.  I think Kevin made the right choice by excluding them.  ld

I missed that Lynn, so thanks, but it's a bump for me.
As is prisoners, now that I see it!

B.

hey Kevin,

This is simply astounding.  My hat is off to you!  And congrats on the Front Page.

Tim

A good work! No redundancy, considering the subject! Congrats for the front page!
Vasile

This is a wonderful story

Hello people,
I go away (to look after my Mum) and return to this!  Well, all I can say is I'm very humbled and honoured.  Thank you.   
It seemed such a simple poem when I penned it (and Brian, you picked up on it, and I do value your honesty), though something between the words kept me reading it, and the more I read it, the more it had to say.  Nonetheless, it's a tribute to the inspiration, generosity and teachings of the great people on this site that I had the confidence to post it.
Thanks again,   k

EB, Rick, Tom, Brian, Lynn, Mike, Milner, Tim, Vasile, Tiko ~~~~~~~~    thanks for the affirmation!

k

I don't understand why apostrophes aren't used to signify the possessives (prisoner's, month's).

Also, somehow, identifying the prisoner as a "he" detracts from the poem, at least for me.

And here we are in agreement Jay.

B.

I can see where eliminating the apostrophe from 'prisoners' opens the word up to more interpretations and perhaps for the sake of consistency it is left out of 'months'.

If it were left in the word 'months' and not in 'prisoners' it excludes the 'prisoner's' interpretation.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

 
well-deserved honours!


Stella

Interesting discussion perhaps arising here: how far can accuracy be stretched in poetry? A lazy attempt to summarize on my part . . . .

B.

Thanks Jay, it's interesting you picked up on the prisoner being a he.  In my first writes I re-used prisoner, leaving gender out.  But having so many prisoners in such a short poem felt bulky so I opted for a gender. Writing from first person also felt too limiting.   Perhaps I should have two versions, male and female.  How would you have handled the gender point?

Re apostrophes, can see I've crossed a line for some and all I can say is I went with (and stick with) my feelings on it.  If anything, I'm wondering about taking out all punctuation ie no initial capitals...
Lynn, your comment that leaving out the possessive allows for inclusion of the prisoner's view is helpful.

As Brian says, this is a interesting discussion.  I'd like to explore from a different angle.  Can I ask how punctuation works in an oral context?  In other words, if I never showed you my poem but only read it, what conclusions would you draw about punctuation and what effect would that have?  Because Poetrycircle is a "sight-based" resource it means we meet poetry visually; curious to know how different our meetings would be in a sound-world.

k

Sorry SL. sorry Stella, missed your posts.  Big thanks for your appreciation.
SL, I hope your mother enjoys the wings.   My mum's not sure about my poetry.... she keeps asking what's it for! The bigger challenge with mum right now is she refuses to view herself as ill.  More on this theme in "Left behind" should you want more.....
Smiles to you
k

Re you mom asking what poetry is "for"--I see she is a sharp cookie! Tom

To be honest Kevin, regardless of the punctuation, if I only "heard" this poem, the most striking thing for me would be the staleness of the prison imagery.

B.

Thanks B..... you know I've been thinking a lot about your various posts on that.  Is it really stale or a cliche to present a prison cell in a confining way?  To focus on the one thing that allows the prisoner to assert his/her individuality?  To express self (and hope) on walls? To use a universal symbol for that expression? To need the ability to express so much the prisoner will do anything to get the blade? To invoke the other escape a blade can provide?
Coming at this more full-on, if these things strike you as cliches, why is that my problem?

:)
k 

And I find the opposite of Brian's opinion.  Listening back to a recording I made of your poem Kevin, I find brevity and beauty in this, somehow very human, somehow soars (for this reader).

Kevin, I am obviously in the minority here, but I have an issue with the romanticisation of prison, which is how this reads to me. I don't think the truth of a situation is ever an excuse for its hackneyed presentation.

B.

By the way Kevin, I don't wish to sour your moment in the sun with my neuroses, so apologies for that!

B.

Kevin,  An excellent poem - regardless of individual preferences (I'm afraid I side with the possessive use and I would love to see the capitals banished) it is wonderful to see it on the front page - congratulations!

xo Michelle

ps. almost forgot - I had a quick suggestion about the gender issue - simply take them out - example:

Nights when the scratches are deep
fingertips add bright feathers

For me,  there is a didactic literalism to this , epitomised by the rather clunking "That cost ten favours and a months hurt",so that it leaves no scope for the imagination to range; the lack of challenge it presents to the reader may well prove a recommendation to others.

In agreement with Michelle here, however a read out loud proves to be beautifully touching. Congrats!

Laura

Big thanks Lynn and Laura for affirming the music in this one... and for your comments.
Big thanks also Michelle for the appreciation and suggestions.  I'm definitely moving towards "banishing" the capital letters.  Still pondering on the gender-or-not question.
Big thanks AE for your honesty and directness...I'm only on the start of my journey and have everything to learn.
And big thanks Brian, no apology needed for honesty and you've spoilt nothing... you have made me think harder.

k

Have finally mastered the format riddle!